NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

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NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:06 pm

Hello All, 

   Is anyone shooting a NightHawk 22 conversion on a Springfield Range Officer frame? If you are, can you tell me what you had to do to the frame to get it to run reliably? With the stock Range Officer frame I cannot complete a string of 5 shots without a malfunction... Usually I have a "click no bang"... Slide did not go closed... ANY help would be appreciated, I want to convert the RO to a hardball gun once I can get it cycling right. 

Brian


Last edited by Astroimage2002 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling.)

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by gitkrunk on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:23 pm

I had a similar problem. Went with a 1lb lighter recoil spring.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Rob Kovach on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:25 pm

What ammo are you using?

Is the rim under the extractor or is the extractor hung up on the rim?

Do you know what recoil spring you are using?

Take the barrel out and drop a round into the chamber.  Does it easily drop in all the way to the rim or is it tight?
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:24 am

gitkrunk wrote:I had a similar problem. Went with a 1lb lighter recoil spring.

Thank you for your reply gitkrunk. I will order one once I figure out what is in it now. 

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:04 am

Have you tried the "plunk" test with the barrel?  If a round can not drop into the barrel completely and freely then there is an issue with the chamber.  It may be leaded up, it may be a tight chamber, it may not like the ammo you're trying to use.
If that is the problem, use a 25 cal bore brush and clean the chamber until you can get a round to drop in and out under its own weight.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by gitkrunk on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:07 am

I'm not sure about the night hawk but marvel sells springs 4 - 9 with the steel slide having a 6 and alum having a 7. If you have a lighter mainspring you could try one of those as well.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:12 am

Rob Kovach wrote:What ammo are you using?

Is the rim under the extractor or is the extractor hung up on the rim?

Do you know what recoil spring you are using?

Take the barrel out and drop a round into the chamber.  Does it easily drop in all the way to the rim or is it tight?

Hi Rob, 

Thank you for your reply Smile 

The ammo is primarily SK Standard Plus or SK Pistol Match. I have used "vintage" Remington that I have also with the same outcome. Didn't try any of the other stuff that I have because, other than high velocity, the Remington is the "hottest" that I have. 

The recoil spring that is in it is the "stock" one. I do know know how many pounds it is. Will be trying to find out. 

A round easily enters the barrel and seats where it should. 

Some additional facts that I failed to mention in my original post that I should have are:
I purchased the NightHawk lightly used (approx. 500 rounds thru it) from a local Bullseye shooter. He had no issues with it. He even took it back for a while to test it on his Caspian frame with my ammo and reported that he had no issues. After that I thought about selling the NightHawk but, darn it, I want to use it. 

Knowing that the NightHawk ran on his frame leads me to think that both of my Range Officer frame is in some way "different". Yes, I have two Range Officers... 

What I'd like to end up with is a working conversion on the Range Officer that has been converted to a HardBall gun. Being an owner of a 1911 I am sure that you understand converting a conversion  Laughing .

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:16 am

kc.crawford.7 wrote:Have you tried the "plunk" test with the barrel?  If a round can not drop into the barrel completely and freely then there is an issue with the chamber.  It may be leaded up, it may be a tight chamber, it may not like the ammo you're trying to use.
If that is the problem, use a 25 cal bore brush and clean the chamber until you can get a round to drop in and out under its own weight.
Hi kc, 

Thank you for your reply. 

A round drops in the barrel easily and the barrel has been, well, "professionally" cleaned by someone other than me. Yup, another local Bullseye shooter who thought that might be the issue. 

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:18 am

gitkrunk wrote:I'm not sure about the night hawk but marvel sells springs 4 - 9 with the steel slide having a 6 and alum having a 7. If you have a lighter mainspring you could try one of those as well.
gitkrunk, 

Thank you for the additional information Smile 

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:54 am

Brian, if the previous owner was able to run the unit on his Caspian frame and your problems exist only on the SA receiver therein lays the problem.  I've have had the worst luck in the past getting any of the SA receivers to play well with 22 conversions.  Not saying it can't be done, but going that route I would recommend very strongly that you keep the lower as a dedicated lower for your conversion.

You might try an EGW high mag catch to set the magazine higher in the pistol.  Speaking of, what mags are you using?

There are many different factors involved in getting a conversion to run 100%.  Sometimes it takes more work than other times, but I have not yet found one I couldn't get to run.

If you want give me a call and let’s see if I can give you any more assistance.

 
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:21 am

kc.crawford.7 wrote:Brian, if the previous owner was able to run the unit on his Caspian frame and your problems exist only on the SA receiver therein lays the problem.  I've have had the worst luck in the past getting any of the SA receivers to play well with 22 conversions.  Not saying it can't be done, but going that route I would recommend very strongly that you keep the lower as a dedicated lower for your conversion.

You might try an EGW high mag catch to set the magazine higher in the pistol.  Speaking of, what mags are you using?

There are many different factors involved in getting a conversion to run 100%.  Sometimes it takes more work than other times, but I have not yet found one I couldn't get to run.

If you want give me a call and let’s see if I can give you any more assistance.

 
Hi kc, 

Thank you for the additional information. I will rethink what I am doing. Buying a dedicated frame might be the best solution.

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Rob Kovach on Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:35 pm

WOAH....Hold the phone.

What lb. mainspring is in your RO?  If it's the 30ish lb. stock IFS mainspring that could be part of the problem.  If the mainspring is too stiff and the act of the slide recocking the hammer slows the slide down too much, and it doesn't go full stroke, it can cause some of those problems your are having.  Those conversions really need to go full stroke to work correctly.

I run 19lb ISMI brand mainsprings in my conversion lowers.  I'm running 7lb recoil springs on my aluminum slide conversions and am able to shoot Aguila sub-sonic ammo--which is very light.

Be aware that changing the mainspring to a lighter one will lighten your trigger pull weight--make sure you double check your trigger weight before shooting your next match to make sure it's still legal.

I use SA for my lower, and it took me years to figure out the mainspring's role in reliable conversion operation.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Wes Lorenz on Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:24 pm

Hi Brian,
You should borrow the different manufacture's magazines from your buddies and try them before proceeding further. We did this recently at our range for a new Nelson conversion that was stovepiping. An old Mavel #1 mag worked great. The suggestion of using a 19lbs mainspring is spot on.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:00 am

Rob Kovach wrote:WOAH....Hold the phone.

What lb. mainspring is in your RO?  If it's the 30ish lb. stock IFS mainspring that could be part of the problem.  If the mainspring is too stiff and the act of the slide recocking the hammer slows the slide down too much, and it doesn't go full stroke, it can cause some of those problems your are having.  Those conversions really need to go full stroke to work correctly.

I run 19lb ISMI brand mainsprings in my conversion lowers.  I'm running 7lb recoil springs on my aluminum slide conversions and am able to shoot Aguila sub-sonic ammo--which is very light.

Be aware that changing the mainspring to a lighter one will lighten your trigger pull weight--make sure you double check your trigger weight before shooting your next match to make sure it's still legal.

I use SA for my lower, and it took me years to figure out the mainspring's role in reliable conversion operation.
Good Morning Rob, 

I am using the stock mainspring setup in the lower. I'd be happy to replace it if that might be the problem. I tried Aguila and Eley Sport in the conversion and it wouldn't even try to eject. Heck, neither of them run in my Model46. A little depressing because I have 1500 rounds of the Eley Sport that I cannot use  Sad 

I am willing to give it a try so I am going to put together an order to Brownells and get a new mainspring housing and mainspring. The mainspring housing is so I can get rid of the ILS that is in the Springfield. What other parts did you have to replace in the Mainspring Housing? 

The trigger weight will be checked and adjusted when all is done. 

Thank you!

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:04 am

Wes Lorenz wrote:Hi Brian,
You should borrow the different manufacture's magazines from your buddies and try them before proceeding further. We did this recently at our range for a new Nelson conversion that was stovepiping. An old Mavel #1 mag worked great. The suggestion of using a 19lbs mainspring is spot on.
Wes

Good Morning Wes, 

The magazines could be a problem also. I'll see if I can borrow some different ones. The only three that I have are the plastic NightHawk.

Thank You!

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Brettitt41 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:40 am


I am willing to give it a try so I am going to put together an order to Brownells and get a new mainspring housing and mainspring. The mainspring housing is so I can get rid of the ILS that is in the Springfield. What other parts did you have to replace in the Mainspring Housing? 

The trigger weight will be checked and adjusted when all is done. 

Thank you!

Brian

To get rid of the SA ILS you'll need a new mainspring housing and all of the internals. Since your going through Brownells the mainspring rebuild kit has everything you need, but you will need a different spring weight as the kit comes with a 23lb.

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Brettitt41, 

Thank you for the reply and information. 

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:38 am

It has been over a couple years since I had my Marvel installed on a dedicated SA lower.
I installed a 7.5# recoil spring from a M41 and if I remember correctly I removed one coil from the MSH spring and it has run like a champ ever since.

Maybe it will work for you.
Just a thought.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:46 am

I've never been a fan of clipped springs in this era when there are springs made to specific weights.  As springs wear, it would be difficult to reproduce the same spring weight if you wanted to replace a spring that was worn if you clipped a new one, but it's easy to replace a spring that was made and designed to be a certain weight.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:49 am

I really like my plastic Advantage Arms magazines. 
I'm quite certain that in the OP's case, we are dealing with a short stroke caused by the insanely high spring rate of the stock SA mainspring.

Oh, by the way, I LOVE how Eley Sport runs in my conversions.  With my 19lb mainspring in my SA it will run with the 8lb recoil spring but the sub-sonic Aguila will not.  They both run nicely with the 7lb recoil spring--so I run 7lb recoils in both of them.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:54 am

Rob;
I am not a fan of spring clipping either Smile 
But in my case it was an experiment to see if it would take care of my problem and it did.
Now with that said, with removing only one coil, what is the spring weight now so I can replace it with that exact weight ?
Well it has been running fine and see no need to mess with it further.
It was just a suggestion to do a quick down and dirty field fix to see if this is truly what is going on with the OP's pistol instead of spending more money on a maybe fix.

Just saying.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:06 pm

With how thick the coils on those SA mainsprings are, and with that ILS mechanism, the spring is already stupid short.  I don't advise making it any shorter.  Besides, the money we are talking about is just a couple bucks.  For what .22 costs these days, he can keep practicing with .45 till the parts come in.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:18 pm

Thanks everyone for the great replies! I will get an order to Brownells today. We will see how the conversion works with the new mainspring and report back. 

Brian

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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:59 pm

I have a RO with a 23 lb mainspring using a Nelson 22 Conversion which is very similar to the Nighthawk.  It's been flawless with teh exception of one bulk ammo type; however, that ammo has had FTF in 3 other pistols so its apparently problematic.
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Re: NightHawk And Springfield Range Officer

Post by Astroimage2002 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:14 pm

Hi All, 

All of the new parts are in and have been installed in Range Officer #1. Hope to get it out to the range for some testing this weekend. 

Brian

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