Wadgun ball gun?

What makes one a  wad gun and what makes a ball gun?

Ball gun essentially means a Service Pistol as defined in the CMP Rule Book. Please download a copy of the latest version from the CMP website. Basically a Center-fire semi-auto with iron sights and standard grips. Typically a 9mm or 45ACP, but latest rules have widened caliber choice. Originally required military "ball" ammo, past several years "jacketed" bullets, new 2023 rules allow lead.

Wad gun essentially means a gun that complies with NRA Precision Pistol rules and is used in NRA (or CMP) 2700 matches. Trigger pull a little lighter. Any sights. Some folks use irons, but most use red dots. The name comes from use of wadcutter bullets - actually, in a 45ACP, that means lead semi-wadcutter type bullets - which can typically be loaded a lot "softer" than Ball ammo and still be very accurate. Although many folks use Jacketed Hollow Point bullets in their "wad" guns, especially for 50 yard slow fire stage.

They have reduced the ball gun requirements drastically over the last few years.  You no longer need to be a manly person to shoot it.  The iron sight requirement is all that is left over from the days when men were men.

If you have an iron sight wad gun with a 4 pound trigger and powder puff ammo you are good to go.  "Jacketed ammo" is still required for a ball gun so hand load some light wad loads and you are golden.

Ya gotta keep up.  Jacketed ammo is no longer required.   See new CMP rule change topic.

With the new CMP rule changes, the main difference between and Wad and Ball gun now is the Ball Gun has be between 9mm and .45 caliber; and must have 4 pound trigger, open sights and max 5.5 inch barrel.  
Looks like everything else is just a matter of how much money you want to spend.

Cmysix wrote:What makes one a  wad gun and what makes a ball gun?

Back in your dad’s era the distinction between the two was pretty easy

A Ballgun or Hardball gun was a 1911 with iron sights, flat grips and a few internal modifications but the outside of the gun was supposed to look pretty much like the 1911 as it was issued to our military. No heavy ribs, no beavertail safeties, no full length guide rod etc.  You only had one choice of ammunition which was 230 grain fmj loaded to military spec which was referred to as “ball”.

You will also see these referred to as Service Pistols.


  A wad gun is typically also a 1911 but it can have quite a few modifications to make it easier to shoot.  Better sights, weighted ribs on the slide (first these had iron sights built in but later dot sights became the standard), beavertail safeties, anatomical grips, lighter trigger weight etc.  There are rules to follow but many modifications have been tried. Ammunition has few restrictions other than it needs to be “safe” so wadguns shoot lighter bullets and lighter powder chargers to make them more accurate at 50 yards and easier to recover during recoil at 25 yards.  


If you are into car racing at all a Ballgun would be your street car that you take out to the track and run it like it came off the showroom floor.  A wad gun is the “stock car” that sort of looks like the car when it first started but is heavily modified for racing.  

John

CR10X wrote:Ya gotta keep up.  Jacketed ammo is no longer required.   See new CMP rule change topic.

With the new CMP rule changes, the main difference between and Wad and Ball gun now is the Ball Gun has be between 9mm and .45 caliber; and must have 4 pound trigger, open sights and max 5.5 inch barrel.  
Looks like everything else is just a matter of how much money you want to spend.

Also a maximum weight of 42oz. 

For those who would like to look at the rule books, here is a link. Service Pistol rules start on page 35 of the pistol rule book.
https://thecmp.org/competitions/cmp-competitions-rulebooks/

Rules are pretty clear here

I legged out in 2003 & still have my ball gun.  

That being said, if I'm reading correctly, if I had a disabled ball gun I could pull the dot off my wad gun (assuming a 4# trigger weight) and shoot it for an EIC match, as it has a Rock River combo rib on it.

Al

From what I understand the combo rib is legal for EIC.

Now there's the question of the pistol being under the 42 oz weight limit. I thought about buying the combo rail, I'm glad I did not. Does anyone have one installed, that comes in under 42 oz?

Back in the olden days a Wad Gun had a 3.5 pound trigger, a ball gun had a 4 pound trigger.  

A wad gun has a 12 pound recoil spring because the ammo is very soft, a ball gun had a 16-18 pound recoil spring because full power 45 ammo was manly as hell and required a stronger spring.

A wad gun can have optical sights, a ball gun had manly iron sights.

A wad gun can have a thumb rest grip or ergonomic grip, a ball gun had manly wooden slabs.

A ball gun essentially looked like an issued 1911 with different sights and was not allowed to have extra stippling or rubber grips or extended sight radius or any of that stuff.

Sadly, as more soy and estrogen are added to foods and all genders grow breasts and cry during sad movies, they ave softened up the Ball gun to be a wad type firearm.  This way men with soft girly hands and supple breasts can enjoy the sport as well.  As we moved "beyond meat" we moved beyond full powered ammo and brisk recoil.

Glad to help.............................. 

So where does this person fit?  

She’s going to fall in love with the sport and realize she needs a 1911 to achieve her goals of kicking men’s asses and earning her distinguished badge!
I’d gladly build her a fast twist barreled pistol shooting extra soft powder puff loads and coach her to her success. 
Long live women shooters!
All kidding aside, the more women the better.
Jon

But will the 1911 be a 45 or a 9mm?  I say she needs both….

Here’s my 1969 Colt 45acp Kit Gun with 1:12 fast twist barrel. 3.0 BE 185 holds X-ring with good bullets. Softer recoil than 9mm and bigger bullet to kiss scoring rings. New CMP rules just opened the door for guns like this.
She won’t need a 9mm and 45 is cheaper to shoot and not as finicky to reload.
Win, win, win!!!
Jon

Does she have hands like Andre the Giant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snu_twxPW5s


She fits in just fine, women shooters are awesome, I married one.  Having spent a considerable amount of time coaching, I can tell you that unlike most male shooters, a woman shooter can actually follow instructions, lol.  The beauty of bullseye is that anyone can enjoy the sport with a modest amount of equipment and a little spare time.  I wish more people participated in my area.  I have to drive 35 miles to shoot anything organized because the nearest range does not support any approved matches and they have removed or destroyed all the turing targets both indoor and outdoor.

I will be shooting Nosler 230gr JHPs in my SP ballgun regardless. I might be at a disadvantage, but it gives me joy.

lonegunman wrote:Does she have hands like Andre the Giant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snu_twxPW5s


She fits in just fine, women shooters are awesome, I married one.  Having spent a considerable amount of time coaching, I can tell you that unlike most male shooters, a woman shooter can actually follow instructions, lol.  The beauty of bullseye is that anyone can enjoy the sport with a modest amount of equipment and a little spare time.  I wish more people participated in my area.  I have to drive 35 miles to shoot anything organized because the nearest range does not support any approved matches and they have removed or destroyed all the turing targets both indoor and outdoor.

 Exactly what my local range did 14 years ago when some members got the action shooting bug. I have to drive a minimum of 2 hours and usually 4+ hours to shoot approved matches.
Stan

Lol, I've lost count of the amount of times "manly" was used when describing a ball-gun here and in other posts.

Grunt

...all being said, yesteryear there were no required qualifying scores shooting the manly guns and ammo. At least with current trends in rule accommodations there are minimum qualifying scores. I think with Service Pistol that is now 250/300. How many got Distinguished who shot well below 250? 

In other words one must be able to shoot a little more accurately contrasted with yesteryear. The top shooters will shoot either, well. They demonstrate that time and time again with their .22 and .45 scores not being that far apart.

What we need is more people shooting Precision Pistol and the organizers are trying to come up with ways to meet that. They should be commended for trying. I think they are succeeding. 

My .02

I’m really glad I started this conversation, now I really need to give some deep thought to manly men and girly man and where exactly I fit in? Are man buns in the rules?

lonegunman wrote:Having spent a considerable amount of time coaching, I can tell you that unlike most male shooters, a woman shooter can actually follow instructions, lol.  

Ain't this the truth. Men are born with the "John Wayne" gene; thinking they they already know how to shoot. Women listen and learn.

Cmysix wrote:I’m really glad I started this conversation, now I really need to give some deep thought to manly men and girly man and where exactly I fit in? Are man buns in the rules?

I shot next to Ruby Fox when she set the Women's 2700 record of 2660. Having never exceeded this score, guess I fit in the non-manly man category.
Man Buns - Check out Game of Thrones and what Sandor Clegane had to say about them. lol

Wes Lorenz wrote:

Cmysix wrote:I’m really glad I started this conversation, now I really need to give some deep thought to manly men and girly man and where exactly I fit in? Are man buns in the rules?

I shot next to Ruby Fox when she set the Women's 2700 record of 2660. Having never exceeded this score, guess I fit in the non-manly man category.

Plenty of women shoot better than men. Their is a elementary school teacher in my who calls local matches when she has the availability, she has retired from shooting but is distinguished and held a master card. 

Part of the reason that more women don't shoot is that a significant amount of people in this sport are not as welcoming as they probably should be, as can be seen by the nature of some of the comments specifically in this thread.