38 special HBWC loads

First topic message reminder :

Have read most of the posts on this topic, still don't have an answer to the question about bulkier
powders vs something like VV 310.
I have on hand W 231, VV 320, VV310 and a tad of Bullseye. Also have 148 gr HBWC coated bullets.
Seeing that the cartridge was developed for black powder in the old days, and reading stories about
how one should tilt the pistol up before firing, I thought it a good idea to ask the wise ones about
which of the above would be  the best for my BE shooting out of a SW52 and possibly a SW 686.

Cmysix wrote:

james r chapman wrote:I’ve never heard,or seen, a bullseye success story using Berrys plated bullets.

Just sayin

 Don't ask me where I just ran across it, But I saw a note from Berry themselves that said they wanted their wad cutters{DEWC} at 800 FPS or better

I'd have to see a machine rest group fired at 50 yards to believe that those plated Berry bullets were suitable for bullseye pistol shooting.

This is with Remington HBWC, but ~800 FPS is where I got the best results.    2.6 grains of 700X.    3.1 grains of W231 produced similar results.

BE Mike wrote:

Cmysix wrote:

james r chapman wrote:I’ve never heard,or seen, a bullseye success story using Berrys plated bullets.

Just sayin

 Don't ask me where I just ran across it, But I saw a note from Berry themselves that said they wanted their wad cutters{DEWC} at 800 FPS or better

I'd have to see a machine rest group fired at 50 yards to believe that those plated Berry bullets were suitable for bullseye pistol shooting.

I can/t/won't argue with you, I jumped right out and bought 500 awhile ago and have not loaded any thing in .38 yet,   but  any better shooter's  then me, and probably means all of you, if anyone would like to experiment, I would be happy to send you some.

In the FWIW category: The February 2024 issue of Shooting Times Has an article entitled "New Powders For .38 Special Wadcutters". This article covers the more traditional faster powders as well as some newer slower powders. 148 grain HBWC bullets included Remington, Hornady, and Zero. Many loads listed along with velocity, standard deviation, and 25-yard accuracy. BYW...accuracy determined for 20 shot aggregate groups using a S&W Modrel 686 (7" barrel), mounted in a Ransom Rest. Not sure how relevant this is to Bullseye shooters, but I thought it was worth sharing.

bruce martindale wrote:Anyone know the true upper limit for speed/ pressure for HBWC heads? Anyone using 3.0 WST with them (800 fps)

Looking at better 50 yard performance in a 52 where the twist is too slow. Ed Hall had an adventure at Perry one year with multiple hits per shot but l don’t recall that being an overload but actually brittle heads

Hmm it would depend upon the bullets being used... seriously it depends upon the bullets being used. 

ONLY HBWC I have used is the SPEER version.. not sure on the actual hardness of the box in my posession but i have had fun collecting older PDF files of reloading data. 

Alliant still say the ones made after 1990 are fine to use with current powders they make.  The manual I used had a horizontal row for TARGET HBWC  anda seperate column for what could be HBWC or DEWC..  but the target row was mild pressure, but the upper row had 1100 fps data..  
      And the speer survived going through the barrel. just DIRTY.

bruce martindale wrote:Anyone know the true upper limit for speed/ pressure for HBWC heads? Anyone using 3.0 WST with them (800 fps)

Looking at better 50 yard performance in a 52 where the twist is too slow. Ed Hall had an adventure at Perry one year with multiple hits per shot but l don’t recall that being an overload but actually brittle heads

From my own personal testing..  its all on the bullet. For example, ive only used the SPEER HBWC<, and in my primitive testing its the same lead and hardness as their 158 SWC slug.. it takes velocity well. 

Alliant had some older reloading manuals get online.. 94 to 2004, the Alliant customer service folk still say the loading data in them is safe and valid to use. 

They have a funny system for wadcutters in 357 magnum and 38 special. One line says "wadcutter" and one says "target wadcutter". The "target" line is much more modest in velocity and chamber pressure.. but the speer HBWC  goes through the barrel perfectly intact, and stays in one piece until hitting the target, were it merely mushed up. 

The manual velocities on those 357 magnum wadcutter loads were hitting estimated 1100. But for the fast line, i seated the bullet about an 1/8" out of the case mouth.

BE Mike wrote:

Cmysix wrote:

james r chapman wrote:I’ve never heard,or seen, a bullseye success story using Berrys plated bullets.

Just sayin

 Don't ask me where I just ran across it, But I saw a note from Berry themselves that said they wanted their wad cutters{DEWC} at 800 FPS or better

I'd have to see a machine rest group fired at 50 yards to believe that those plated Berry bullets were suitable for bullseye pistol shooting.

not sticking up for them, just passing along what I read from them, anyone in AL. or GA. got a ransom rest? I got the 52 and the Berry's DEWC, Bought them before ya'll told me they were terrible.