Dillon die problem

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Dillon die problem

Post by inthebeech on Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:35 pm

Anyone else notice how shallow the expanding length of the 38 cal drop tube is?  When I seat the 148 WC, about a third or so is getting jammed down in to "un-expanded" brass and it has has a noticeably negative effect on accuracy over my single stage dies and set up.  I recently went over the 550B and noticed this immediately.  If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be interested (Dillon does not make a longer drop tube/expander - I checked).
Thanks,
Ed

inthebeech

Posts : 180
Join date : 2012-03-17
Age : 51
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by DeweyHales on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:38 pm

Move the powder to station three. Try your prior expander in station two. Or, use your prior expander after powder.

DeweyHales

Posts : 578
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by inthebeech on Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:58 am

Good idea Dewey.  I may as well go back to seating and crimping in one station; it's better than what is happening now.

inthebeech

Posts : 180
Join date : 2012-03-17
Age : 51
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:53 am

I don't like seating and crimping in one station, but it could tide you over for a while perhaps.

DeweyHales

Posts : 578
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by 243winxb on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:58 am

Try  neck sizing just  part of the brass, revolvers only.

243winxb

Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-12-02
Age : 72
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:11 pm

What bullet are you using? With my Dillon sometimes my Zero 148s fall in TOO deep before I even seat them.  I had to set it to expand LESS so it wouldn't fall all the way to the powder.

Rob Kovach
Admin

Posts : 2552
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 43
Location : Brooklyn, WI

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by inthebeech on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:27 pm

I like where '243' is headed; partially size to allow the WC to go all the way in, unmolested.  The drop tube being too short is no longer a problem.  Use the tube now just for opening up that short, partially sized section and bell the mouth.  I am basically only sizing now to create a band of friction to control the seating long enough to put the crimp in.  Problem solved.

Perfect.

inthebeech

Posts : 180
Join date : 2012-03-17
Age : 51
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:37 pm

You could use a LEE Factory Crimp Die with the guts removed to size cases, it's larger ID won't size the case as much. Or you could use a non-carbide steel die with lube, they don't size the case as much as the carbide dies do, plus the original steel dies were slightly tapered, so the case mouth is smaller than the base is. Redding offers a "dual" sizing die that has two different diameter carbide inserts in it, the one for the case mouth is smaller than the one for the base. Lymans M die would likely have  a longer expander, but I'd call them first to verify. One other option is to use a decapping die at the first station, that way you don't size the case at all. The second station could be set up normally to simply flare the case, third station to seat only, and the fourth station to taper crimp only, or perhaps even a Redding profile crimp die. Another guy I know uses a Lee FCD die at the fourth station to lightly crimp the bullet, and the carbide insert sizes the case down a bit and swages the bullet inside it. Since not all FCD dies are exactly the same ID, I dunno about doing that one myself.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by inthebeech on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:19 am

Oddly enough I just found out while setting up my dies, what you mentioned above; to partially size the case only enough to grip the bullet while seating and prevent it from dropping all the way in as we're discussing, I had to run the case a full halfway or more in to the die.  I was wondering if the old school steel die was tapered and you just confirmd this.  You learn something here every day if you're humble enough to accept advice.  Thanks 358156.

inthebeech

Posts : 180
Join date : 2012-03-17
Age : 51
Location : North Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:29 pm

I'm glad to help. My mind is a repository of useless and semi-useless facts and nonsensical nuggets of misinformation.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Wes Lorenz on Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:00 am

Why not take the Dillon expander to a friend or machine shop and have them machine the expander portion longer?

Wes Lorenz

Posts : 111
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Washington

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by robert84010 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:33 pm

inthebeech wrote:Oddly enough I just found out while setting up my dies, what you mentioned above; to partially size the case only enough to grip the bullet while seating and prevent it from dropping all the way in as we're discussing, I had to run the case a full halfway or more in to the die.  I was wondering if the old school steel die was tapered and you just confirmd this.  You learn something here every day if you're humble enough to accept advice.  Thanks 358156.
Just wondering what your final decision was with this. I am finding the same issue with my Dillon SDB and Dave Wilson can't make a powder drop/expander for me for a few months. I found that my K38 works fine with the brass not resized at all, they still fit into the cylinder. If I resize they squeeze the HBWC 148's too much. thanks.

robert84010

Posts : 267
Join date : 2011-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Jack H on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:50 pm

For their expand only die, RCBS makes a long reach expander plug with a plug diameter of.358 and a straight length below the bell of about .590.  My normal plug measures .356 diameter and the straight part is about .360

Jack H

Posts : 971
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 67
Location : Duckburg, Orygun

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Larry Lang on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:11 pm

Typically I load Rem 148g swaged HBWC in Rem cases. I don't resize, but I use a Lee factory crimp die.
Unable to get the Rem bullets I tried the same technique using some Speer bullets and Fiocchi brass. The bullets dropped into the case. I exchanged my decap only die for a .357 sizer and checked the fit. I ended up reducing the belling diameter or this combo.

This points out the differences in brass and bullets. changing a component without reviewing/modifying the reloading process can produce varying results...some unacceptable.

Larry Lang

Posts : 198
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 76
Location : Frederickson, WA

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by 243winxb on Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:44 pm

I wonder how deep this expander goes??   Lyman Neck Expander M Die 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 357 Maximum   http://www.midwayusa.com/product/174363/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-38-special-357-magnum-357-maximum

243winxb

Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-12-02
Age : 72
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by robert84010 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:24 pm

I just got back from the local gun store and the Lyman was the same as a RCBS. Neither are even close to what is needed to seat a HBWC without squeezing the base down significantly. I bought the RCBS set because it was on the used table and the set was the same price a the single Lyman die and I might try to size the plunger down to work. I can't believe this hasn't been addressed by the die manufacturers since 38 special has been around for decades and decades. I guess most just use the DEWC which is probably as long as the plunger in the dies. 

I need to be able to resize the cases though because one revolver I have is for PPC and being able to speed reload smoothly is mandatory. So I still have to figure this out. thanks for any help.


Last edited by robert84010 on Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

robert84010

Posts : 267
Join date : 2011-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Jack H on Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:09 pm

Call RCBS and see about the plug mentioned above made just for HBWC

Jack H

Posts : 971
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 67
Location : Duckburg, Orygun

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by 243winxb on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:12 pm

I wonder if this would size the brass less?   http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/124-dual-ring-carbide-dies    Redding duel ring sizing die

243winxb

Posts : 126
Join date : 2013-12-02
Age : 72
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Jack H on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:49 pm

243winxb wrote:I wonder if this would size the brass less?   http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/124-dual-ring-carbide-dies    Redding duel ring sizing die

  It would depend on the resulting inside diameter of the  of the sized case vs the bullet diameter.

Jack H

Posts : 971
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 67
Location : Duckburg, Orygun

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Dipnet on Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:51 pm

Inthebeech,
When reloading 32 S&W L wadcutters, and getting miserable results, I found out from Dillon that there is an extra-long powder drop funnel for wadcutters, which deeply bells the cases and does not squeeze the wadcutter bullet. It made all the difference in the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if a similar tool exists for 38s. [I did not read all the responses so I apologize if this is repetitious]. Dipnet

Dipnet

Posts : 74
Join date : 2014-06-09
Location : Gainesville, Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Dillon die problem

Post by Sponsored content Today at 8:30 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum