I want a new .45?

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I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:24 pm

I currently have a beautiful pre-70s Colt 1911 National Match that's much more accurate than my abilities.  But having said that I want another .45 for bullseye.  I've been looking at a number of options, some of which are not 1911s.  I really like the idea (haven't actually seen one close up) of a S&W 945 but I've been somewhat convinced that it might not be a good choice for steady bulleye use.  Apparently parts may be a problem to obtain and service is pretty much limited to S&W.  I still want one but not necessarily for bullseye.  I'm so impressed with my Pardini SP in .22lr that I should ask about their GT45.  Is that a good option or too good of an option for my novice status?  The only other .45 that I'm considering is a S&W Performance Center 1911.  The styling isn't totally to my liking but I hear good things about it.  The one direction I don't want to go is the Les Baer, Wilson, etc. route.  No offense to anyone that has one of these specialty 1911s but they just don't appeal to me for the time being.  So, any thoughts or suggestions.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:42 pm

I've heard a lot of good things about the Springfield Armory Range Officer 1911 - less than $1000, but plenty accurate for Bullseye.

The Pardini GT45 is a nice gun, for sure. It uses double-stack magazines, so its grip is accordingly wider.

I shot Bullseye for my first several years with revolvers - the S&W 625 in .45ACP is accurate enough right out of the box, and mounting a red-dot is easy. I then purchased a used wadgun from another shooter, and I've been using that ever since.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by LenV on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:03 pm

Rvlvrlvr nailed it. The Range Officer will shoot great groups right out of the box. Price is good also. Check this one out.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=428957811

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:28 pm

I seriously considered the Range Officer but some of the more recent reviews comment on build quality not being what it was originally and that concerns me.  Besides, it just doesn't generate a lot of enthusiasm for me.  What about the S&W Performance Center 1911?

rvlvrlvr - What is the wadgun that you have?

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by DavidR on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:42 pm

Any 1911 can be turned into a bullseye gun, problem is you hope it ends up like you want as to accuracy and price, the range officer is the best bang for the buck period,  but If you want a turn key upper shelf bullseye gun check out springfields custom shop bullseye gun, or champions choice sell Les Baer bullseye models. Plenty of good used ones come up here for sale or many custom builders watch this forum, it boils down to what you want , how long your willing to wait to get it and how much your willing to pay.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:49 pm

beeser wrote:rvlvrlvr - What is the wadgun that you have?

I purchased a 1911 wadgun built on a Springfield Milspec by Dave Salyer from a gentleman in Arizona (Salyer is in South Carolina, so that gun's made the rounds across the country), and I just got back from my first trip to the National Matches at Camp Perry yesterday. I also got to meet Mr. Salyer face-to-face last Friday, and he was very interested to know how the gun was working for me: the gun performed well -- I came in 4th in the Master-Civilian class and 29th overall.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:57 pm

rvlvrlvr wrote:
beeser wrote:rvlvrlvr - What is the wadgun that you have?

I purchased a 1911 wadgun built on a Springfield Milspec by Dave Salyer from a gentleman in Arizona (Salyer is in South Carolina, so that gun's made the rounds across the country), and I just got back from my first trip to the National Matches at Camp Perry yesterday. I also got to meet Mr. Salyer face-to-face last Friday, and he was very interested to know how the gun was working for me: the gun performed well -- I came in 4th in the Master-Civilian class and 29th overall.
Thanks rvlvrlvr!  Coincidentally the S&W 52 that I just bought comes from your neck of the woods.  I'm in Northern Arizona.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:13 pm

beeser wrote:Thanks rvlvrlvr!  Coincidentally the S&W 52 that I just bought comes from your neck of the woods.  I'm in Northern Arizona.

Go figure - a wadgun comes here from Arizona, a 52 comes to Arizona from here. Small world.

I also have a Model 52 that I dabble with, though I'm not currently using it for any Bullseye matches; I might mount a red-dot and throw on a set of anatomic grips to make into a 50-yd centerfire gun for 1800 matches (.22 and CF) where shooting .45 is not a requirement like in 2700 matches.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by C.Perkins on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:45 pm

rvlvrlvr;

Good shooting at Perry.
I had a wadgun built by Dave Salyer and sold it when I got out of shooting the .45
Wonder where it ended up   Laughing 

Clarence

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:47 pm

C.Perkins wrote:rvlvrlvr;

Good shooting at Perry.
I had a wadgun built by Dave Salyer and sold it when I got out of shooting the .45
Wonder where it ended up   Laughing 

Clarence

854 in CF, 855 in .45 (I had some issues at the long line; little if anything to do with the gun). Brenda Silva says "Hi" =)

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by C.Perkins on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:54 pm

rvlvrlvr wrote:
C.Perkins wrote:rvlvrlvr;

Good shooting at Perry.
I had a wadgun built by Dave Salyer and sold it when I got out of shooting the .45
Wonder where it ended up   Laughing 

Clarence

854 in CF, 855 in .45 (I had some issues at the long line; little if anything to do with the gun). Brenda Silva says "Hi" =)

Good scores.
That pistol took me to Master, glad it went to a good home.
Yep, kept tabs on Brenda throughout the week.
She was my horse for the woman shooters and she did not let me down  Smile

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by Vociferous on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:05 pm

+ 2 for Les Baer.  Got two of them.  He backs up his stuff, too.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by Vociferous on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:08 pm

Hell, one of my Les Bears made it to Perry this year, even if I didn't (buddy had his frame mount snap on his wadcutter, couple of weeks before).

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:25 pm

OK, I took the bait and looked at the Les Baer website and now I ask what is so special about their 1911s?  They have no written warranty.  What do they actually manufacture?  Do they just tweak and assemble parts made by someone else?  Why are there so many configurations to basically the same design?  Is there anything truly innovative with their products.  And as far as their website and marketing of their new Baer Hemi "572" what is all that have to do with the gun.  Nice description and pictures of a '70 Cuda but what does it have to with what their selling?

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:56 pm

Vociferous wrote:+ 2 for Les Baer.  Got two of them.  He backs up his stuff, too.
but not in writing

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:35 pm

I saw some new-production Springfield Range Officers this week and they had the best slide to frame fit that I have seen so far.  I don't think you can find a better value in a bullseye capable pistol.  I drilled a lot of 10s and Xs at Camp Perry with my "stockish" Springfield last week.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by 45 MIKE on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:24 pm

Check out FCW guns I have one coming in the mail great shooting 1.9 at 50'
plus they are great to work with

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by guncheese on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:18 am

not that i know anything at all
but looking at the construction of the Pardini
its very reminiscent of a CZ
so what would a CZ-97 bring to the line ?


Last edited by guncheese on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:27 am

guncheese wrote:not that i know anything at all
but looking at the construction od the Pardini
its very reminisent of a CZ
so what would a CZ-97 bring to the line ?

The distinction of being the only CZ-97 in use for Bullseye?

I once considered building up a CZ Kadet for .22 and a CZ-97 for CF/.45, mainly for grins, but I don't know if there are any gunsmiths or even the knowledge out there to make those guns shoot Bullseye-acceptable accuracy or reliability with Bullseye ammo (e.g. semi-wadcutters), and I'm not really interested in spending the time to blaze that particular trail. I do wonder about their accuracy at 50 yards, though...

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by guncheese on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:38 am

i was digging a bit
this is from Cajun Gunworks (they are the CZ pistol go to guys)

CGW has engineered a better CZ-97B-BD.  CGW pioneered the barrel bushing modification for CZ's, which makes the 97 one of the most accurate 45's on earth regardless of price.  This also increases the reliability since the OEM screw in bushing is known to turn during recoil as well as crack or break at the very thin flange

CGW Precision bores and slots the 97 slide to accept a SS 1911 type match barrel bushing precision fitted.  At lock-up there is -0- play at the barrel muzzle resulting in unparalleled accuracy


Slide boring and match bushing fitting only, includes new bushing wrench.  The machine work is impeccable.
     $190.00​

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by rvlvrlvr on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:44 am

guncheese wrote:i was digging a bit
this is from Cajun Gunworks (they are the CZ pistol go to guys)

CGW has engineered a better CZ-97B-BD.  CGW pioneered the barrel bushing modification for CZ's, which makes the 97 one of the most accurate 45's on earth regardless of price.  This also increases the reliability since the OEM screw in bushing is known to turn during recoil as well as crack or break at the very thin flange

CGW Precision bores and slots the 97 slide to accept a SS 1911 type match barrel bushing precision fitted.  At lock-up there is -0- play at the barrel muzzle resulting in unparalleled accuracy

Slide boring and match bushing fitting only, includes new bushing wrench.  The machine work is impeccable.
     $190.00​

Nifty! My dream of shooting Conventional Pistol with UN-conventional pistols might still come true =)

I might also return to fiddling with my Glock 21, now that I've figured out the secret to making less-jammy ammo in my Salyer wadgun -- with the cast bullets I like to shoot, using thinner R-P and Winchester brass (as opposed to the Federal that I favored) has made jams nearly a thing of the past; I wonder if that will also fix the jamming issues I had in my Glock 21 with those bullets...

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by DavidR on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:25 pm

beeser wrote:
Vociferous wrote:+ 2 for Les Baer.  Got two of them.  He backs up his stuff, too.
but not in writing

Not true, when you buy a baer, it will come with a test target shot with that gun at 50yards,with  under 3'' standard guarantee, most are under 2.5, or one 1.5" or under if you paid for premium accuracy. it will have a card signed by everyone that had any part building it, the frame slide fit will be super tight as will the lockup,Its built with all match grade parts and you can get a frame mount or a slide mount for the red dot or a iron sight model. Ive sold them for years and never had a bad one and Les will stand behind what he sells, I have had two that imo could have had better trigger jobs but Les took care of the one sent back with no problems. Some of the premier gunsmiths on this forum have had a few issues with some but imo there is not a better bullseye pistol for the price that you can buy in stock from Champions choice. Ive shot with guys using the Springfield custom shop bullseye guns and they are very nice, 2399.00 on gunbroker is the best prices, the pardini is interesting at a start price of 2k, they have been out for about 10 years and ive yet to see one in use at a match. Dave Salyer is a friend, send him a range officer and let him rework it and you will have a great shooter at about a les baer price. Accuracy X sells a bullseye for 3500.00 and has nice reviews. Now you can go up the ladder in cost, but the timeline for some of the best are several years or more waiting lists. Joe Chambers is building nice accurate guns,5k+ and 4 year wait, acculock is another 5k+ 6mo. wait. the list goes on and the price goes to about 8-10k with a cabot

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:39 pm

Below is what I was referring to when I stated that Les Baer does not have a guarantee in writing.  It's on their website along with the prices.  I'm not saying that LB won't stand by their products but it's not in writing.

Note: The Magnuson-Moss Act (Public Law 93-637) does not require any seller or manufacturer to give a written warranty. It does provide that if a written warranty is given, it must be designated as "limited” or as "full” and sets minimum standards for a "full” warranty. Les Baer Custom, Inc. has elected not to provide any written warranty, either "limited” or "full”, rather than attempt to comply with the provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Act and the regulations issued thereunder. There are certain implied warranties under state law with respect to sales of consumer goods. As the extent and interpretation of these implied warranties varies from state to state, you should refer to your state statutes. Les Baer Custom, Inc. wishes to assure its customers of its continued interest in providing service to owners of Baer Custom firearms.

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by beeser on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:49 pm

What about the current S&W Performance Center 1911?

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Re: I want a new .45?

Post by schmeg on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:19 pm

I can attest to the quality of the Range Officer. I bought mine last fall and used it all winter in indoor postal leagues. Shot 90 percent with it. Bench rested it makes darned near one hole at 50 feet with my loads. Not bad for $829. Never had an FTF or FTE in 1200 or so rounds so far. This gun like any gun is very dependent on how comfortable you are gripping it and shooting it. I am finding out the problems of a bad fit with my Smith Model 41. Great gun, but the grip is too damn big for my smallish paw. I can't get a repeatable grip with it. So now I need to spend more money on a nice grip. It all boils down to one thing,,,if you can't get a repeatable firm grip, and be comfortable at the same time, all the inherit ant accuracy and great triggers won't do much good. I would rather shoot a cheap ( my Ruger Mark 2)gun and score 95 percent in a match, than shoot an 85 percent (my 41) but look good doing it. If I had to do a 2700 this weekend, it would hands down be the Ruger going with me until I can get the Smith worked out to my liking. You need to handle and shoot lots of guns to get it right. Unfortunately sometimes thats harder to accomplish than one thinks.

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Re: I want a new .45?

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