dry firing vs match

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dry firing vs match

Post by 285wannab on Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:42 pm

I know this subject was just talked about but, this is a little different.  I totally believe in dry firing.  I do it every night with my S&W 41.  The thing is when I'm dry firing at home it's always on the money.  Feels like I should be in the 290 easily.  Of course at a match things are different.  What could I do to bring my home dry firing skills to the match.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by Steve B on Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:14 pm

The exact same process and focus.

When I dry fire at home my 'shots' are usually very good because focus is put on what's important.  In a match, when I throw a shot, it's because I'm counting my score and worried where the next bullet will land.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by Ed Hall on Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:48 pm

Add visualization into your training and use the same for your matches.  Make the match experience mirror the dry fire training.

You might also read something I wrote long ago on TargetTalk:

Have you tried a "Happy Place" yet?


Last edited by Ed Hall on Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited to remove highlighting in the TargetTalk post.)

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by john bickar on Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:09 am

285wannab wrote:Of course at a match things are different.

I have bolded the self-defeating part of your mental approach for you to review at your leisure.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by CR10X on Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:01 am

John speaketh the truth.  Or to put it another way, there should be no difference.  A good shot is a good shot, same emphasis, same importance, same process, etc.; live fire or dry fire. John has pointed out what needs to be improved with the dryfire process for us.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by Steve B on Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:45 pm

john bickar wrote:
285wannab wrote:Of course at a match things are different.

I have bolded the self-defeating part of your mental approach for you to review at your leisure.
Thank you John, I tell myself that same thing...

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by robert84010 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:30 pm

Don't know how long you've been doing this. but i'm sorry  I have a hard time believing it's "always on the money" because then you should really be 290+. So maybe what you think you see as perfect is not really there yet, i'm willing to bet as you do it more and more you will find that your dryfire now is not as perfect as you think, which is fine because you will get better.

when I first started I did not believe a shot could break without ANY movement, I just could not comprehend that, but finally I did it once and the light bulb turned on. then I started to really see what was happening.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by 285wannab on Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:59 pm

Here is a quick story of my focus being in the wrong place.  I have a friend that is a better shooter than me.  So I always try to beat him.  When he has an off night and I am shooting good I can beat him.  One night on the line we were side by side.  So I wait till he shoots his first slow fire shot. He pushes his first shot into the seven ring.  So know I'm thinking ahhh I got him tonight.  What do I do, I shoot a five.  I didn't beat him that night.  Playing games in my head instead of thinking about the process of shooting one good shot.  One good thing is that I am becoming much more aware of this. And I know I need to focus on the process, which in turn will make me a better shooter.
I'm trying to learn to leave the games and the "of courses" out of the picture.

Ed, On the subject of the "Happy Place".  I did read your post and thank you for sharing that here. I was thinking to change where I dryfire, darken up the area a little and play some music in the background.  Try and make my "Happy Place" my dry firing area.  That way I can bring that to a match along with my dry firing 290 scores.  Does that make sense or am I missing the point of the "Happy Place"

Robert, I have been shooting leagues now for about 4yrs. You make a valid point of saying what I see might not be as good as I think.  But I can only go on what I think I see.  Unless I buy a trainer.

285wannab

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by robert84010 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:59 pm

I used to only dryfire with my ballgun and I personally found the trainer to give the same results you are having. I could shoot clean strings on a RIKA with the parameters set for NRA bullseye target dimensions but never come close to that during a match. I went to a air pistol and had much better training results, targets don't lie, and so I had no surprises during a match. my calls were much better after air pistol training.
years ago when I was really training and trying to move up the ladder I found that trying to get five dryfire shots in a row was very realistic to shooting a match, the pressure built as I neared the fifth shot. I found it really helped my shortline because I KNEW I could shoot five perfect shots in a row. I never could do ten perfect shots in a row and that is why I find it tough to believe you do it all the time. perfect is tough.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by Ed Hall on Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:31 am

285wannab:

Several things to note:

As for the Happy Place, it is of your choosing, but should be wherever you do the best and feel most comfortable.  Remember that it is "your" place and you can build or change it as you see fit.  You can even move, if you find a better one.

A common theme in dry firing is to operate the trigger too slowly, so that you can make tiny corrections as the operation unfolds.  This should be transformed into making any corrections to the trigger/grip prior to the shot and allowing the shot to unfold as natural as possible with a fairly quick trigger operation.  The trigger manipulation should be a determined start to finish operation without correcting anything.  robert84010 is spot on about the movement.

Another area you may want to research is Lanny Bassham's material, especially, "With Winning In Mind."  You will note that even your message board name is self-defeating.  To achieve a higher level, you must convince yourself you are already there, rather than aspiring to be there in the future. 

When you review an "opponent's" target during a match, or anyone else's, for that matter (even yours), you should look only for good shots.  That helps you let your subconscious know those are what you seek.  Perhaps, rather than reviewing less than perfect shots down range, it may be more helpful to cut out a perfectly punched X from a fired target and place that in sight in your gun box to review.

You are correct that the process is what will bring the results, but through visualization, you will help your subconscious know what results you desire from the process and that will help the process refine.

As a personal note about trainers, I found after using mine for a while, I had learned how to perceive my dry fire much better.  I actually learned a higher level of comprehension during the dry fire shots.  At that point the advantage of the trainer was really only in aggregating shots.  I was able to exactly follow the unfolding of the shot and compare it to the trace playback.  My experience with my trainer was more aligned than robert84010's, though.  Mine followed my league performance pretty closely.

And, as a last comment (for now) on the subject of mental training, learn to tell about successes rather than failures.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by robert84010 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:00 pm

If you are dropping most of your points during the timed/rapid strings then I can suggest a couple of things during dryfire. I would hold the pistol above the target at an angle similar to what my hardball gun would recoil to then lower the pistol to my sight picture and dryfire a shot within 2 seconds. 
I think a huge part of dryfire and all training sessions is setting a goal for that session and achieve it. Like I said I would do some blank wall dryfire to begin and then go to a proper sized dot on the wall and set a goal for slow fire shot process and then set a goal for rapid fire process dryfire, like five perfect "shots" in a row. set a time limit too, if you can't meet the goal stop and try tomorrow. When you meet your goal take credit for it, mark down what worked in your log and stop for the night. Actually believe you are at a match during dryfire and remind yourself at matches that this is just another dryfire session and you should narrow the differences between the two.
I became a 280 hardball shooter, which I know is not top tier, in 2.5 years and went out in that time because of a dedicated dryfire routine and using an iron sighted Marvel conversion on my ballgun at all matches.

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Re: dry firing vs match

Post by 285wannab on Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:00 am

I wanted to thank you guys for spending the time to answer my post and with such great info.
This league's season I will be a Mature and Focused shooter.  Someways of accomplishing this will be:
Remain focused on the shot process.
Let go of self defeating thoughts
Improve my dry firing techniques
Start a journal
Start visualizing
Work on my "Happy Place" so I can bring it to the matches
And of course ask you guys questions and listen to your suggestions.
Thanks again......

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