NRA Competitor Meeting

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NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by dronning on 7/12/2015, 8:20 am

Any feedback/information from those that attended?

- Dave
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Guest on 7/12/2015, 4:26 pm

The audience was handled well in my opinion.  This was my first competitor's meeting.  My guess is there were roughly 40 people attending although some left early and some came late and left.  The room was packed.
There were no minutes read from last meeting (but maybe that is how the NRA runs meetings, not sure.)

They did not follow the printed agenda closely.  They did take all questions and they did record the meeting.

Turning target question came up at the end and it sounds like that idea is dead for now due to budget issues.

Lots of complaints on finding anything on NRA website.  We were told competitive shooting only gets IT help if they have time.  Brought up Search Engine Optimization, COPE, Responsive Design, taking feeds directly from match results at clubs.  Pistol Committee said that was all over their head and to email NRA.

Questions on NRA helping clubs, creating too many divisions...but the intent was great...to get more people into shooting.

What really blew me away, and I mean no disrespect, but the Pistol Competition Committee is apparently selected from existing NRA Board members by the N R A president.  Members are NOT elected by the competitive shooters, that they are making policy recommendations on.  Seems crazy, we have no real say in who is on this committee.  I guess you could say indirectly we do as we all get to vote for NRA board members, but, since I doubt competitive shooters make up 1 percent of NRA members we actually have almost no impact on who gets elected.  It amazes me we ended up with people on the Pistol Committee that want to help us with that kind of indirect representation.

There was MUCH discussion on how to increase members from NRA sending out mailings to giving cheap pins for Marksman and Sharpshooter.
Also bars if you win after going distinguished.

I honestly believe The NRA pistol committee means well, but they only meet once a year and there was a clear disconnect, or maybe the board did not know what some of the competitors wanted.  For example the Pistol Committee did not seem to know this Bullseye forum even existed!

It was asked if the National would be back at Perry and it was like they had bit a lemon.  The answer was 100% yes and Cardinal was just some rough plans drawn on paper, no building has started.  There was someone there from Cardinal but they did not say a word.  Zins was not there.

This is what I remembered.  Others might remember differently.

I had a wonderful first experience at Perry....but boy am I tired :-)

Chip

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Jack H on 7/12/2015, 4:45 pm

Who is on the committee? 

And the next level up?  We need to know where to apply pressure.
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Guest on 7/12/2015, 4:48 pm

I will let Rob reply as he knows the names of the three NRA board members that were there. Also Rob asked half the questions :-)

Chip

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by sixftunda on 7/13/2015, 6:06 am

ChipEck wrote: Cardinal was just some rough plans drawn on paper, no building has started.  There was someone there from Cardinal but they did not say a word.

Cardinal has begun construction on pistol/smallbore ranges months ago.  I can guarantee you that dirt has/is being moved.  They will be holding pistol matches there.  Whether or not the Nationals will be there is still not finalized.
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by r_zerr on 7/13/2015, 11:46 am

While I cannot speak for the Pistol (Rules) committee, I can talk about what has been done in the Hipower rifle area, under the belief that it is similar, if not identical.  Some good, some bad.

1. The rules committee is chosen by the discipline director, and/or the Competitions Director, and not by election. That said, there are a good representation of competitive shooters, past and present on the committee.This could change, but historically, there are good people on the committees.
2. In the past the rules committee members were given a notebook with letters, comments, and questions regarding rules and other issues related to the discipline in advance of, or as part of the meeting, for which the majority of the meeting is geared. If you wish for consideration of your ideas, sending them in by writing is important. A deluge on the same subject even more important.
3. The results of their meeting is that they set forward recommendations.  Most times, the recommendations are forwarded to the Board of directors by Mr. Willing (or his predecessors), although there have been times where they have not. The pistol or rifle director has some say in this, as well as the Competitions Director (Dennis Willing). I believe that in the case of safety issues, the legal department is often involved.
4. Often a change on one rule may effect or not be in common with other rule changes, and will require cross-discipline consideration. Empty chamber indicators is an example.
5. The Board of Directors gets final vote.
6. Board of Directors is full of many Politicos and High Profile Personalities, many of whom do not consider competitive shooting high on the list, if they even show up at all. Consider your BOD votes appropriately, and promote competitive shooters with good interpersonal skills, to run for the BOD to represent your interests.

-Ron Zerr

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by james r chapman on 7/13/2015, 12:52 pm

Thanks for the insight.
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Guest on 7/13/2015, 1:25 pm

I may regret asking, but how does one run for a Board position?

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/13/2015, 1:59 pm

Chip,
If you remember, Ted at the beginning of the meeting said there would be no questions concerning anything other that rules committee questions. If you have questions about the Cardinal shooting center, You should have asked. I was there at the request of several shooters to answer any questions if they arose. A few did ask questions after the meeting, tell we were asked to leave the building.
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by r_zerr on 7/13/2015, 2:01 pm

All I know about running for the BOD is what I have been exposed to, and that is that you collect signatures on official forms for nomination from other NRA members. I believe that you must be at least a Life Member for consideration, and a baseline number of signatures are required. 

There is some other convoluted process where nominees are either culled or promoted, prior to announcing and sending ballots out, along with published resume's in the American Rifleman.  I do not know what that process is, or if it is real, only the rumblings from several that I know who have run, both successfully, and not.

The form of endorsement for people running for the BOD are placed in the Rifleman, and from what information that I have garnered from my lines of my contact,  they almost always have some form of political association with them. Some have may/have said that it is crony-ism, or that it may mean that those doing the endorsing (Paid staff/hierarchy????), believe the nominees are strong lobby-oriented members, or that they just know how to play the political game very well.


-Ron

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Guest on 7/13/2015, 3:13 pm

Danehogle wrote:Chip,
         If you remember, Ted at the beginning of the meeting said there would be no questions concerning anything other that rules committee questions. If you have questions about the Cardinal shooting center, You should have asked. I was there at the request of several shooters to answer any questions  if they arose.  A few did ask questions after the meeting, tell  we were asked to leave the building.  
Dane
Sorry, I swore some did ask which lead to the Committee's comment that all Cardinal was as far as bullseye went was some drawings on paper and that nothing else had happened yet.  I see a post above says work has started.  Either I misheard, the Pistol Committee did not know work had started, or we were "being handled".  It is entirely possible I misheard.  We could play the recording to verify.

Chip

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/13/2015, 3:47 pm

Hahahah, I guess we could

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by james r chapman on 7/13/2015, 3:56 pm

I'm sure the NRA will not address the issue until such time as a change is made, if made. JMHO
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/13/2015, 4:22 pm

Well as a fellow competitor I will try to keep everyone informed, as much as I am aloud.

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by spursnguns on 7/13/2015, 4:31 pm

Danehogle wrote:Well as a fellow competitor I will try to keep everyone informed, as much as I am aloud.

Hello Danehogle,

Or at least as much as you are "allowed".   Smile

Jim


Last edited by spursnguns on 7/14/2015, 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/13/2015, 6:11 pm

Siri is not my friend ....

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by dronning on 7/13/2015, 6:21 pm

Danehogle wrote: Siri is not my friend ....

I've had some "siri us" near misses, which could have been a disaster, luckily I caught them! Smile

- Dave
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/14/2015, 7:12 am

Nice Dave

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by DavidR on 7/14/2015, 11:28 am

james r chapman wrote:I'm sure the NRA will not address the issue until such time as a change is made, if made. JMHO

According to what I read on tony brongs blog that it was said at the meeting that regardless of what has been said about the nationals moving to cardinal, it wasn't true and the nationals for  the foreseeable future would be held at perry.  That if true pretty much seals the deal to me, at least for a year or two. But it could just be smoke,mirrors and BS lol! The new dates , a week later next year were already released for the nationals at camp perry 2016
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/14/2015, 1:31 pm

All I can say is this. Yes, the pistol phase of the National Matches will be at Camp Perry for 2016.
The NRA, Dennis Willing has been to The Cardinal Center for a site visit.
Cardinal personal are working on a proposal, and have been moving dirt ( when it's not raining ). I can also confirm that a pistol range WILL BE BUILT at The Cardinal Center.

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by clark2245 on 7/14/2015, 7:43 pm

I saw Denny Willing (Director of Competition for NRA) driving down the line during teams and flagged him down to ask some questions.   He was very open and willing to answer anything we asked.   As to moving the matches he was clear that will not be happening in the very immediate future.   His description of it was they had been invited to the Cardinal range and made a "courtesy" visit.   He indicated they had also made "courtesy" visits to several other ranges.   In addition the local business leaders and politicians in the Port Clinton area got wind of a possible move from the newspaper article and got their congressman and probably the Governor involved to lobby us to stay.   He pointed out he has to look not just at the short term answer but what will be best 20-30 and more years out.   Denny summed it up by saying he has learned to never say never, but there were no plans at this point to move the matches.

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by james r chapman on 7/14/2015, 8:15 pm

Well, maybe the Gov can appropriate funds for an upgrade at Perry...
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Danehogle on 7/14/2015, 9:32 pm

You are correct Clark, and as of now, so is Dennis.
The NRA will be receiving a proposal in the future, not only from Cardinal but a few other locations from what I hear. They will have to make a decision as to the best location with best infrastructure for the competitors. It is my personal opinion that The Cardinal Center would be a great place to hold the Pistol phase of the National Matches, but I am bias. I urge everyone of you to ask questions, to see what Cardinal has to offer For yourself.
It is interesting that as a viable option is unveiled, there now is preliminary action to make some upgrade. Does this mean we, as competitors will finally get what we want at Camp Perry? I Don't believe so. It is still a rifle range that is converted to a temporary pistol range for one week a year. That " conversion " costs a lot of money, time and energy only to be removed a week later. It is not economically viable anymore. There has also been talk that the prices at Perry will be getting even more expensive for the NRA.

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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by Rob Kovach on 7/14/2015, 10:47 pm

Most of my questions and concerns were about NRA's role as a sanctioning body for our sport and my expectations for support from the NRA for match directors and competitors--especially NEW match directors and NEW competitors.

-I demanded improvements to NRA's website so shooters--even new ones that don't know the "insider" lingo can find matches near them easily and be able to figure out what discipline each match is.  (The current website isn't clear).  NRA stated that there is a new website in the works, but they have been saying that for years.  I demanded that they increase the urgency of the project.

-I demanded more publicity and outreach for our sport.  Facebook, twitter, email blasts, brochures are publicity materials that the CMP uses to drive participation, but NRA hasn't been using any of those for our sport!  The excuses were a lack of marketing staff in the competitions division, and lack of budget resources.  NRA has marketing staff.  I demanded that the Competitions department reach out to the NRA's staff and find out if their own internal marketing folks could help out.  I also suggested that NRA Competitions could solicit volunteers to help with some of the tasks that they claim they can't afford to do otherwise.  Also, I mentioned connecting us competitors with our state NRA Foundation Representatives who can help us set up raffles, banquets and other fundraising to get the funds NRA needs to do the support tasks that are currently not getting done.

- I requested that NRA take responsibility to create match operation software.  Many match directors are using John Dreyer's match recording excel spreadsheets.  John's spreadsheets work great, but it's not up to date to administer .22 only, iron sight sub-classifications, or the production sub-classification.  NRA is the sanctioning body--THEY need to provide the tools that are used to administer matches.

There were other topics, but I don't have time right now.
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Re: NRA Competitor Meeting

Post by jmdavis on 7/14/2015, 11:03 pm

Good on you Rob. Right now the best place that I know to find out about mid-Atlantic matches is the link off Tony's blog. even though every approved and registered match goes through the NRA. And the problem isn't just for Bullseye. It affects Highpower, Silhouette, Black Powder etc.
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