Pacfleet & All Navy matches

I just read match bulletin for Pacfleet & All Navy matches. For EIC matches is states "NO MINIMUM SCORE REQUIRED". That's for Navy personnel.
Gotta love it!

Jon

now, now Jon. I could bring up the fact that the Army "marksmanship" matches aren't even a NMC or that the Wilson matches aren't either. I didn't hear you bring up the fact that the USMC Division matches haven't shot a full course NMC in well over 15 years? The Air Force doesn't even hold matches. I could bring all this up, but I won't because i'm not trying to start a pissing contest over something we cannot change.

Each service sets their own rules, not the CMP for distinguished.  Until the guiding instruction is updated, the minimum cutoff doesn't apply.  Our instruction resides with OPNAV since we, like the USCG and don't have a dedicated Team, the USAF falls in the middle.  That means someone in the Pentagon for the Navy has to care about our Team instruction and spend the time to revise it IAW the new CMP rules.    We're working to change that thanks to the efforts of OIC, who is doing great work to get us a new home.  That statement was inserted and highlighted due to the drama that took place last year and to ensure that civilians are aware that they fall under CMP vice service rules.  This, unfortunately, is what I was afraid of, which is a cheapening of the distinguished medal in the services; because, we may or may not  abide by the CMP rules.

On that note.

• USMC: will shoot at 25 yards vice 50 for slow fire with the M9A1 (fixed sights and issued ammo) & no cutoff.
  

• USCG:  Guiding instruction doesn't require cutoff.  Never heard of them hosting a match for it to matter.
  

• USAF:  Guiding instruction does not mention cutoff.  Not sure when/where their matches are.  I want to go!
  

• USA:  2015/2016 Interservice doesn't list a cutoff, but having shot there...250 isn't getting you points anyway..lol.
  

Thank goodness, they all share the same Commander-in-Chief. 

Sometimes that's all they share.

Does the Navy require they earn a certain amount of points in military matchs?

Well i've been through this before and I always wonder how many Army communication specialists have won the Nationals, NTI, or Olympic medals??? Then I can ask why was this now retired Navy Electronic Technician supposed to win any of those trophies?




....

I know you know this Jon, but the military does not rotate around who won what at Camp Perry or what score it took to become Distinguished. There is no justification for a past or present AMU shooter to comment about Navy Regulations. It really speaks to how isolated you guys are at Benning. Compared to what is going on in the world today and the sacrifices people make does a score in a pistol match really matter?

Christopher Miceli wrote:Does the Navy require they earn a certain amount of points in military matchs?

Yes, to earn a Navy badge there is a certain amount of points that have to be won at Navy matches, Interservice or Nationals.

I think Jon's point is more that they have a different set of rules then us not active or reservist.   But he can speak on that... for I am not Jon.

Christopher Miceli wrote:Does the Navy require they earn a certain amount of points in military matchs?

The rules are the same for us as anyone else, the difference is that we have not adopted the 250 minimum score, at Navy Fleet and All Navy matches; because, as I mentioned above, the instruction has not been to require the cutoff score.  The instruction resides with OPNAV who has to open, adjudicate and then approve the change.  Their priority is bigger picture, like funding repairs, buying ships/planes/weapons, etc. 

If we participate outside of a Navy, but still DoD match we fall under the rules of that parent service hosting the event.  If we participate in a civilian match, we fall under the rules set by the CMP with the cutoff.

Christopher Miceli wrote:I think Jon's point is more that they have a different set of rules then us not active or reservist.   But he can speak on that... for I am not Jon.

Chris,
you are not shooting for a Navy badge so it doesn't matter. I heard they adopted a cutoff score last year, because I know someone that didn't get points but I guess they changed that? I thought the cutoff score was a good idea but I don't write the rules.

Well I don't know jack about all the military regulations, so I learned something today. Always figured same EIC rules applied to everybody. Obviously wrong. Always figured if you wanted points you had to place in top 10 percent of all shooters, so that's what I did. Didn't realize there are special privileges for being military other than earning a spot on a team and shooting tax payer supplied match ammunition. Airborne!
Jon

Well The Navy could run their match just like the Army and not allow any other branches to compete but they have always allowed anyone to shoot on space available basis and therefore break out Navy shooters for Navy badges.

robert84010 wrote:

Christopher Miceli wrote:I think Jon's point is more that they have a different set of rules then us not active or reservist.   But he can speak on that... for I am not Jon.

Chris,
you are not shooting for a Navy badge so it doesn't matter. I heard they adopted a cutoff score last year, because I know someone that didn't get points but I guess they changed that? I thought the cutoff score was a good idea but I don't write the rules.

You are correct, the 2015 match program did have the 250 cutoff, for both Acive/Reserve/Retired and Civilians.  The issue was that while the program had the cutoff, the guiding instruction OPNAV, did not, which is the senior instruction.  Therefore the two were in conflict.  The decision was made by the OIC of the Team that until the senior instruction is revised, that the guidance will be followed.

Well active or reservist can qualify for pistol or rifle marksmanship medals according to the match bulletin.  If I recall correctly service members compete for their perspective services EIC badges which differ in appearance than the CMP civilian EIC badges.

robert84010 wrote:Well The Navy could run their match just like the Army and not allow any other branches to compete but they have always allowed anyone to shoot on space available basis and therefore break out Navy shooters for Navy badges.

That is mostly true. If you want to shoot Pac fleet or all Navy you can shoot if space is available with active or ex-military having preference over pure civilian. You must also currently be classified as expert or above.

Len

OldMaster66 wrote:That is mostly true. If you want to shoot Pac fleet or all Navy you can shoot if space is available with active or ex-military having preference over pure civilian. You must also currently be classified as expert or above.

Len

Len, no requirement to be Expert in order to participate for civilians.  It is however, space-A as you mentioned.  

Having civilian shooters is great for the match, no matter what classification.

I just read the 2016 entry form. Last year they only let a civilian shoot if he was Expert or better. I see that this year they ask you if you consider yourself an experienced shooter. I wanted to make it down there last year and downloaded the form. I should have known they would change it since I mentioned it without looking again. It would still be fun to go down there for the match. I missed the Mid-winter match I planned to go to this year when my work got in the way.

Len