Titegroup for 45 ACP

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Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:03 am

I have for years used 3.5 or 3.8 grains of Bullseye powder for my 45 ACP loads with either a 185 or 200 grain LSWC and these have worked fine for my 1911 with a slide mounted Ultradot. I have 4 pounds of Titegroup that I would like to use up. Problem is all the new loading manuals I have and the web site for the Titegroup manufactuer show a starting load of 4.6 grains of TG with a 200 grain LSWC. They also show a starting load of BE as the same 4.6 grains with a LSWC where my old manuals show 3.5 as a starting load for BE and a 200 grainer. I know for myself that the 4.6 grain BE load would be way too much for my pistol so I was wondering if anybody is using TG and could recommend a starting load that I could try that is below the 4.6 grain load ? 4.6 of Titegroup just sounds like a pretty hot load for bullseye shooting.



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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by StephenL on Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:05 am

Based on several recommendations from the Old Bullseye list,

I use 4.2 gr of titegroup for 45 acp 200gr swc in my les baer wadcutter.

From the same sources, 4.8 gr of titegroup for the hardball amo: 45 acp 230 FMJ in my ball gun.

I am just starting to load the 38 special swc for my 686, I see recommendations between 3.2-3.8 of titegroup.

I think if you search the old list you will see these loads repeatedly.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by clark2245 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:22 am

Neil at NSK did a lot of testing a few years ago and reported that 4.2 seemed to be the magic number for Titegroup, giving best accuracy in the guns he tested with various SWC bullets. In fact I believe he said that was the most accurate load he found overall.

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titegroup

Post by AllAces on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:52 pm

Lyman 49th Edition has two loads for 200 gr LSWC:

Mould #452630, 4.8 gr starting load, 5.4 gr MAX load, OAL=1.235

Mould #452460(appears to have two lube grooves), 4.5 gr starting load, 5.1 gr MAX load, OAL=1.161

Nothing listed in Speer #14

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:22 am

Just a heads up, throw away the loading manual when loading for bullseye even the lowest load will be hotter than you want, Midway sells load data books on different calibers with different bullets that show the FPS of each load. You can use these just find the combo you want and use what pushes it between 775-820 and your good.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by Virgil Kane on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:57 am

DavidR wrote:Just a heads up, throw away the loading manual when loading for bullseye even the lowest load will be hotter than you want, Midway sells load data books on different calibers with different bullets that show the FPS of each load. You can use these just find the combo you want and use what pushes it between 775-820 and your good.



That's the reason I asked what other people are using. Either 4.6 of TG or 4.6 of BE is way too much for our uses. Both my new Hornady manual and on line show these higher starting loads. My old Lyman 7th edition shows BE loads as low a 3.5 of BE for both the 185 and 200 grain SWC's. I'd rather start low and take the chance of the slide not cycling totally then work up as compared to starting to high and beating my gun to death.

BTW that 3.5 of Bullseye with a 200 grain SWC still works for me at 50 ft. in my indoor league and I have a slide mounted Ultradot and a 14# spring. Outside I use 3.8 with the same bullet.



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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by Rotwang on Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:13 am

Conventional wisdom was to add a couple tenths to your Bullseye load and see how you're doing.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by ChuckS1 on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:29 pm

Tried this load today in both my Les Baer and my customized Colt Government at 50 yards. They were okay, but not great. Interestly, the Les Baer shot some sub-2" groups at 50 yards (using a sandbag) with 4.2 grains of TG and an Ideal 452389 185 grain wadcutter cast from wheelweights.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by hellsreach on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:25 pm

I'm reading this topic the lots of interest. I reload a lot of things. Hell, I reload every single case (in good shape) I pick up at the range, whether I have that caliber or not -- just to have them (Bullets will be more valuable in the zombie apocalypse), So I have tons of different kinds of powder. Of course, among those that I favor is Titegroup since it is so clean. The same cannot be said for Bullseye or Powerpistol and the like, so I'm eager to find out how many people shoot and like Titegroup in their .45 wad gun.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:45 pm

Big difference in shooting zombies and the x ring at 50 yards, tightgroup can be accurate with the right bullet charge combo, but bullseye will shoot more accurately with many combos.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by Virgil Kane on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:04 pm

Let my try this again , I posted but nothig showed up.



Being lazy I figured I would see what the weight of Titegroup would be when using my powder measure set up for Bullseye powder. My measure throws 3.8 of Bullseye and without touching the settings it throws 4.2 of Titegroup. I figured I would give this 4.2 of TG a try with the Magnus 185 grain button nose SWC and see what happens. To my suprise I got desent groups, not great but desent. I did notice that my groups with TG were about 3 inches to the right of my BE groups with the same bullet. However I did have vertical stringing of about 3 inches at 25 yards with a 10 shot group but left to right impact was only around 1/2 inch for the same 10 shot group. This 4.2 of TG shows some promise but I think I'll up the charge a tenth of a grain or so and see if the vertical stringing goes away. I'm hoping for nice round groups like I get with my BE load. TG isn't supose to be position sensitive but I think I'm finding out different or so it appears. I'll update when I get around to shooting the heavier loads.



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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by beeser on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:26 am

...


Last edited by beeser on Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by Virgil Kane on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:52 am

Beeser I have no idea. I have been using 3.8 of TG with 200 grain Magnus and got nice round groups that shoot right along with my Bullseye Powder groups using 3.8 of BE. No vertical stringing like the 185 grain with 4.2 of TG. I know vertical stringing with a rifle is do to the powder not being exactly right and adding or dropping a 10th of a grain could make the vertical stringing disapear but I don't know if that's the same theory with pistols.


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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by LenV on Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:19 am

Beeser,
  It could be your crimp. To get consistent ignition you need consistent chamber pressures. When you crimp the 45 the ideal taper crimp (IMHO) is .463. I use a Lee turret press but could not get that crimp with Lee dies and went to a Dillon taper die in the turret. That stopped the stringing for me at the lower loads.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:31 pm

stringing can be  a gun issue.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by LongSlide on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:54 pm

OldMaster64 wrote:Beeser,
  It could be your crimp. To get consistent ignition you need consistent chamber pressures. When you crimp the 45 the ideal taper crimp (IMHO) is .463. I use a Lee turret press but could not get that crimp with Lee dies and went to a Dillon taper die in the turret. That stopped the stringing for me at the lower loads.

Len

0.463 seems like a very heavy crimp, maybe too heavy?  Did you actually mean 0.463"? 

I try for a crimp at 0.470 or .471 so that bullet doesn't deform.   Bullet is either 0.451 or 0.452 + 2(case wall thickness=0.010) which results in 0.471 or 0.472" at the crimp.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by kwixdraw on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:02 pm

It might change with a different primer too. Worth a try.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:23 pm

.A true .463 will deform a normal sized lead swc. unless your brass case is super thin, Ive tested every crimp and found countless times, the best as to accuracy and function was .467-.469, mostly .467  were for fmj's that were .451 in size. lead standard is .452 and .468-.469 do best in my findings. Disclaimer;, the amount of crimp you think you have is directly linked to how you check crimp and the quality of the tool.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by LenV on Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:50 pm

Hi Longslide,   I guess I really do mean 0.463. A bullet that is 0.451 and wall thickness of .010 like you say is 0.471. If you only crimp to 0.470 you are not really putting much of a crimp on it. I probably am deforming the bullet when I crimp this tight but I have seen a big improvement in group size when I started crimping this way. I had another OFBS shooter tell me to try it and it worked. Like DavidR's disclaimer it could be the way I measure it and the hardness of my cast that makes it work for me.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by beeser on Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:01 pm

...


Last edited by beeser on Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by james r chapman on Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:25 am

I think you need to purchase an optical comparator to complete your reloading equipment...

(grin)

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

Post by DavidR on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:09 pm

Its the amount of pressure you exert on the caliper that changes things, a .470 could be a .472 if just a little too much pressure is used. machinists ive asked say only the slightest of pressure is correct. A.470 will work in most cases but it can cause failure's to feed in timed and rapid fire in my experience, now take it down to .469 and all those failure's go away. function trumps alibies and accuracy every time.

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Re: Titegroup for 45 ACP

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