11 o'clock cant.

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11 o'clock cant.

Post by BryanGA on 2/8/2012, 7:28 pm

Does anyone shoot with an 11 o'clock cant? It seems to be more comfortable to me. I first came across it in reading about one handed defensive shooting.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Paper-Puncher on 2/8/2012, 7:39 pm

I would think for bullseye shooting , you want the gun as close to striaght vertical as possible. the 11 o'clock cant thing works for defensive shooting because it reduces the effect of recoil when forced to shoot one handed and even more so weak handed....and all your wanting to do is hit the magic 8in circle.....to stop a threat

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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Rob Kovach on 2/8/2012, 8:49 pm

I've seen Marcus Chang shoot with the 11oclock cant when his shoulder was injured (expert+)

I will shoot with the 11oclock cant when I have alot of fatigue. Gunny Zins says you can hold the gun upside down and pull the trigger with your pinky as long as the gun doesn't move when you pull the trigger.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Founder on 2/8/2012, 10:57 pm

To me the cant can't matter, the barrel is round and the bullet is round. Physics right?

I have during times of fatigue let the gun roll inward and it did not seem to have a detrimental effect on point of impact.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Jack H on 2/8/2012, 11:32 pm

My natural position with the 45 grip is canted. So I cant to about the 11 oclock, maybe 1030 position. When my wrist is set, that is how my fist turns with the 45 grip. Other type grips can work my wrist differently and might result in some other natural cant position
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Jerry Keefer on 2/10/2012, 4:01 pm

You just have to keep in mind, when calling shots, and making adjustments..Up/down really isn't exactly vertical and right or left really isn't exactly horizontal.. I place a canted graphic of a cross hair in the shooter's gun box for visual reference to mentally plot the move.. For instance, two or three clicks up/down, will require a click or two horizontal to maintain alignment. Many find slightly better trigger finger dexterity with a cant.

Jerry
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Jack H on 2/10/2012, 7:58 pm

I get more mileage out of a natural position for the wrist than a few clicks here and there will accomplish. Besides, very few of us can shoot inside of small click counts.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Jerry Keefer on 2/10/2012, 10:16 pm

Once upon a time...

In the very late 60s I was shooting in western Pa. as a member of the Castle Pistol Club..Bob Hogue was a member there. He was a thin, frail, individual and a real gentleman. He had a serious cant..First cant I had ever seen..We all shot irons sights back then, as dots had yet to appear... Bob was the man to beat.. He was HM and frequently, as in almost always, won the indoor State Championships and just about every other match..Unfortunately, Bob is no longer with us..Joe Pascarella began shooting at Castle Pistol around that time frame with the grip mounted Oxfords and began his climb to National Champ. A long time ago..SmileSmile

Jerry
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by BE Mike on 2/11/2012, 8:35 am

I've seen very good shooters shoot with a cant. The only thing is that if the cant is serious enough, it might require sight adjustments that would normally be elevation only, to include a couple of clicks of windage, too. Personally, I wouldn't intentionally shoot with a cant, but if it evolved, I wouldn't fight it.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by dullom on 1/29/2013, 9:26 pm

Same here. I was mobilized in 2001 and left the sport until this month. Guess what, I was cant'g at 11:00. I figured my shoulder, combined with some 10 more years of joint pain,..plus the loss of my bullseye muscle memory, I had a cant which hopefully out of good basics, will disappear. I shot a 801 in a 900 match with the cant second time out, so does it matter...not much to my latest opinion.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by C.Perkins on 1/29/2013, 10:49 pm

Well, lets see, when using a red dot scope.

The barrel is round, the bullet is round, the target is round, the dot is round.

Nope, the cant does not matter.

Just take consideration if you have to make adjustments to the dot sight.

Do not fight holding the gun and sight perfectly level.

If you shoot international such as free and air, then there is adjustability in the stock to compensate for cant.

My free and air pistol sights are level while I shoot with a cant.

Do some experimentation to satisfy your personal needs and not what others do cause we are all different.

JMHO

Clarence
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Jack H on 1/30/2013, 6:49 am

Stand with your shoulder more erect and back in good posture and you might see less cant.
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by DeweyHales on 1/30/2013, 8:13 am

I don't think cant matters either. If people are worried about clicks, you can offset the cant of the dot in its rings. As always, you need to be consistent.


Last edited by DeweyHales on 1/31/2013, 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Steve B on 1/30/2013, 8:53 am

I was about a 10:30 canter, around 11 now. Brian worked with me a little too try and get the gun vertical. Brian and Andy both said the gun would return back to center better, after recoil, if it was more vertical.

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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by 1joel1 on 1/30/2013, 10:29 am

Even though everything is round, the bullet does drop. If you have a cant, then the bullet drops at a different angle to straight up and down. I think that the cant would need a sight adjustment.

Just my 2 cents

Joel

(oh, I am a physicist)


Last edited by 1joel1 on 1/30/2013, 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Larry Lang on 1/30/2013, 10:48 am

I tend to cant if I hold my SF too long. I've never noticed it in TF/RF. Maybe I'm busy with other things. I'll check into this next practice session.

Ed Masaki once said, and I paraphrase, "Extend your hand as tho you were 'shaking hands'. Notice the angle. Place a pistol in that hand. It will be canted."
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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by Steve B on 1/30/2013, 4:38 pm

1joel1 wrote:Even though everything is round, the bullet does drop. If you have a cant, then the bullet drops at a different angle to straight up and down. I think that the cant would need a sight adjustment.

Just my 2 cents

Joel

(oh, I am a physicist)

What direction does gravity work in then?

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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

Post by 1joel1 on 1/30/2013, 5:08 pm

Steve B wrote:
1joel1 wrote:Even though everything is round, the bullet does drop. If you have a cant, then the bullet drops at a different angle to straight up and down. I think that the cant would need a sight adjustment.

Just my 2 cents

Joel

(oh, I am a physicist)

What direction does gravity work in then?

I'm sorry, that didn't come across as I intended. I meant as straight up and down along the axis of the sights if the gun were held at 12:00. What I am trying to say, is that when the gun is canted, 3p and air rifle shooters know this, the bullet will fall at an angle that is now not along the axis of the sights or red dot. You would need to adjust your dot sight to accommodate this especially if shooting at 50 yards. I hope that this is better, but I seem to be having a hard time describing what I am thinking. A drawing would explain is 2 seconds.

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Re: 11 o'clock cant.

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