CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

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CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 10/30/2017, 11:08 am

First, the reason I'm using this ammunition is that is that it works in my pistol.

I'm shooting an FAS SP607. CCI standard, which was the go to ammunition for my S&W Victory, seems to be too long for the magazine. Rounds would jam while loading and would regularly get stuck resulting either in the round not chambering and the bolt taking a chunk out of the bullet or in more rare cases making a banana shape out of the cartridge.

My question is, is there any other ammunition that is shorter OAL than CCI standard that I should try?

I'm also concerned about the quality of the batch I have. The HP is no where near consistent in the last box. Some have a pronounced HP, some have non at all, and everything in between. I started experiencing problems with rounds not chambering and, for the first time, a couple rounds that refused to fire even after a few very hard firing pin hits on the rim.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Wobbley on 10/30/2017, 11:27 am

Need a better selection.  Try this place. http://www.bullseyelondon.com/ammunition/rimfire-ammunition/22?limit=36

A bit of a trip but they will ship.

Closer may be this place. http://www.dantesports.com/en/product-category/shop/ammunition/

Closer than the London place is this one https://www.theammosource.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_9_700&zenid=op7fikgqamtso4pq0hudiig4o6

There is som Sellier and Bellot standard velocity at 50 per 500 which seems to be a good price for practice ammo.  Try some of that.

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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Aprilian on 10/30/2017, 11:30 am

If I remember correctly, I found SK to be the shortest in my testing (plus the abundant lube would help your feeding problems).   I'll see if I can pull out my notes tonight to see what I found on OAL.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by desben on 10/30/2017, 11:40 am

The specification for 22LR calls for an overall length of 0.950 to 1.000". Did you measure the CCI rounds that were giving you trouble?
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Aprilian on 10/30/2017, 12:10 pm

Wait, you have CCI Standard Velocity with a hollow point?  In the US that product is a LRN (lead round nose).  

I wonder if you got the proverbial "floor sweepings".
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Wobbley on 10/30/2017, 12:21 pm

It’s a real product.  http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=2&loadNo=0056

Fiocchi makes a similar round.  The Fiocchi works well in my 41.

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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by JKR on 10/30/2017, 12:24 pm

You can find information over in the Target Talk archives about the FAS pistol. They can be very ammo fussy. I owned a 602 during the 22 ammo crisis. Bad timing. I got it to work with CCI SV by changing the magazine springs with Ruger springs cut to the correct length. I also polished the inside of the magazine. These mags are hard to find and expensive so don't make any feed lip changes unless you're sure of what you're doing. 

I spent about two years getting that pistol to work reliably. When I finally did, I sold it to a friend who's shot it for the last three years without a problem. Great little pistol. Fabulous trigger!

Jim

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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 10/30/2017, 12:50 pm

Aprilian wrote:Wait, you have CCI Standard Velocity with a hollow point?  In the US that product is a LRN (lead round nose).  

I wonder if you got the proverbial "floor sweepings".
As was already pointed out it is a different product. This box does seem to suffer in the QA department with the difference in HP molding.

The SV LRN was my ammo of choice in my S&W Victory.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 10/30/2017, 12:52 pm

desben wrote:The specification for 22LR calls for an overall length of 0.950 to 1.000". Did you measure the CCI rounds that were giving you trouble?
Won't get a very good OAL measurement of the rounds after they've given me trouble...  Laughing
I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't pay attention to whether the ones that were problems were the ones with the non-existant HP.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 10/30/2017, 12:56 pm

Wobbley wrote:Need a better selection.  Try this place. http://www.bullseyelondon.com/ammunition/rimfire-ammunition/22?limit=36

A bit of a trip but they will ship.

Closer may be this place. http://www.dantesports.com/en/product-category/shop/ammunition/

Closer than the London place is this one https://www.theammosource.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_9_700&zenid=op7fikgqamtso4pq0hudiig4o6

There is som Sellier and Bellot standard velocity at 50 per 500 which seems to be a good price for practice ammo.  Try some of that.

Do keep wanting to get round to Dante. The outdoors store SAIL and Baron have ample supplies of the SS HP. They seem to be the only ones I've come across that do. But if the HP are not great on QA, I'm better finding a better ammo. I want something reliable without doubling the cost of my ammunition.

I did really like the S&B in my S&W far about three boxes. Then it refused to feed, refused to eject, and a host of other problems. Don't think the FAS would be any more tolerant of the heavy waxy lube on those.

I'll need to try the SK. But that's near twice the price of the CCI.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by jmdavis on 10/30/2017, 1:15 pm

CCI has the most variation of any of the ammo that I measured. This included CCI Std, Eley Target, Eley club, Norma TAC, Norma Match, SK Pistol Match, SK Rifle, Aguila Extra, Aguila Pistol Target and Remington White Box.

In my guns the TAC and Match worked well. But everything was more consistent length wise than CCI. My friends who shoot CCI in Pardini's often swage it shorter. 

You do have to keep Euro match chambers cleaner than their American counterparts. That means having a .243 or .25 caliber brush bent to a 90 degree angle to brush the chamber. 


Here's in an excerpt from an email I sent to friends following the first part of my ammo length testing. 

***************

CCI Std paper box
.980
.980
.986
.985
.986

Eley Club
.974
.9745
.974
.975
.976

Federal 711 this is white box and not 711b
.980
.981
.982
.978
.979

SK Std Plus
.978
.980
.980
.978
.980

Norma TAC Match (RWS)
.964
.965
.967
.965
.966

And the surprise of the night, 1995 Remington White Box from CMP
.979
.981
.978
.979
.977

I found that the ammo over .985 didn't fit in my mags or would tend to stick. The mags were freshly cleaned by the way.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Wobbley on 10/30/2017, 2:27 pm






I did really like the S&B in my S&W far about three boxes. Then it refused to feed, refused to eject, and a host of other problems. Don't think the FAS would be any more tolerant of the heavy waxy lube on those.

I'll need to try the SK. But that's near twice the price of the CCI.
Still, I suggest trying any leftover on your FAS.  22s are like that.  Your troubles with the SW and that ammo indicated lube buildup.  A quick brush out with either a chamber brush ( bent rifle brush works fine) or a quick brush out from the muzzle. A drop of oil on the top round can help keep the lube from becoming sticky.  A little experimentation here can tell you which or a combination will help and at what frequency.  At $5 per box and a little oil and brushing seems to be much more attractive than $10 per box.

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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by 243winxb on 10/30/2017, 4:39 pm

Aguila Super Extra ,  standard velocity 40 gr  has a shorter OAL  then my CCI standard velocity 40 gr  round nose ammo. 

The Aguila seems to   produce  less felt recoil?   Sorry no chronograph.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Aprilian on 10/30/2017, 7:29 pm

I pulled out my notes and 2 varieties of CCI were the longest.  I had a 7-way tie for shortest
Fed Premium Gold Medal Match
Geco Match
Geco Semi-Auto
Norma tac 22
RWS pistol match
RWS Super Pistol
RWS Target Pistol
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 11/1/2017, 10:34 am

jmdavis wrote:You do have to keep Euro match chambers cleaner than their American counterparts. That means having a .243 or .25 caliber brush bent to a 90 degree angle to brush the chamber. 

I found that the ammo over .985 didn't fit in my mags or would tend to stick. The mags were freshly cleaned by the way.


Well, the way that the FAS disassembles, no need to bend a brush.

I'm thinking the upper limit for the FAS mags is lower than .985.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 11/1/2017, 10:37 am

Wobbley wrote:
Still, I suggest trying any leftover on your FAS.  22s are like that.  
Your troubles with the SW and that ammo indicated lube buildup.  A quick brush out with either a chamber brush ( bent rifle brush works fine) or a quick brush out from the muzzle. 


I was using a .22 brush and cleaning from the muzzle after every session at the time. Might try that ammo with the FAS. Don't have any S&B leftover, gave it to a friend who shoots rifle. But there's a store nearby that always has it in stock.

I'll have to try some Aguila and the other listed shorter OAL cartridges. Thanks everyone.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 11/1/2017, 10:45 am

jmdavis wrote:My friends who shoot CCI in Pardini's often swage it shorter.

How would this be done?
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by jmdavis on 11/1/2017, 10:57 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEmsBcAwho

Also you need to specifically clean the chamber, not the whole barrel.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by Slartybartfast on 11/1/2017, 1:24 pm

jmdavis wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEmsBcAwho

Also you need to specifically clean the chamber, not the whole barrel.
Looks like that particular die is no longer available or difficult to come by. Out of curiosity I'm going to try searching for it.
I'll try the S&B, Aguila, and others before exploring that route further.
But, the increased accuracy/precision of the rounds at 50 yards from a bench as shown in the video was impressive.


Last edited by Slartybartfast on 11/2/2017, 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by jmdavis on 11/1/2017, 1:31 pm

Did you email Waltz?
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by BE Mike on 11/2/2017, 7:57 am

jmdavis wrote:CCI has the most variation of any of the ammo that I measured. This included CCI Std, Eley Target, Eley club, Norma TAC, Norma Match, SK Pistol Match, SK Rifle, Aguila Extra, Aguila Pistol Target and Remington White Box.

In my guns the TAC and Match worked well. But everything was more consistent length wise than CCI. My friends who shoot CCI in Pardini's often swage it shorter. 

You do have to keep Euro match chambers cleaner than their American counterparts. That means having a .243 or .25 caliber brush bent to a 90 degree angle to brush the chamber. 


Here's in an excerpt from an email I sent to friends following the first part of my ammo length testing. 

***************

CCI Std paper box
.980
.980
.986
.985
.986

Eley Club
.974
.9745
.974
.975
.976

Federal 711 this is white box and not 711b
.980
.981
.982
.978
.979

SK Std Plus
.978
.980
.980
.978
.980

Norma TAC Match (RWS)
.964
.965
.967
.965
.966

And the surprise of the night, 1995 Remington White Box from CMP
.979
.981
.978
.979
.977

I found that the ammo over .985 didn't fit in my mags or would tend to stick. The mags were freshly cleaned by the way.
Another surprise about the Remington White Box from CMP. I found that it would not hold any kind of a group in any .22 firearm that I own. Of course, YMMV.
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Re: CCI HP Subsonic 22LR

Post by jmdavis on 11/2/2017, 9:19 am

BE Mike wrote:Another surprise about the Remington White Box from CMP. I found that it would not hold any kind of a group in any .22 firearm that I own. Of course, YMMV.

This was not my experience when determining the best ammo for a 200 yard 22 silhouette match (6 and 7 inch round targets) prone with sling or wrist rest. I shot prone with sling. I tested Eley target, CCI Std, Eley Club,  Remington White Box, Federal Automatch and sk Std. 

At 50 yards and 100 yards the eley performed best but on paper, but  at 200 yards the white box performed best and held a 2.75 inch  group for 10 shots with sling from prone. The others had flyers that opened their groups to the 4 inch range. The rifle was a Remington 540x with a Simmons 44 mag 6.5x20 mil-dot scope. At 50 and 100 the Remington groups were 10-15% larger, but there were no flyers. 

This doesn't mean anything except that my 540x likes Remingtong white box.
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