Guide rod for 1911s

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Guide rod for 1911s

Post by hengehold on 12/12/2017, 7:58 pm

In your opinion, is there a real benefit to installing a recoil spring guide rod on a 1911? What are the benefits you experienced? Reliability, accuracy, something else?

Thanks,

-Shooting new guy

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/12/2017, 8:01 pm

No benefit to accuracy. If you use one make sure it is a 2 pc rod. 1 pc rod will damage bushing/barrel lockup (gall) because you have to twist bushing while in full battery.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Gary Wells on 12/12/2017, 8:28 pm

It has been proven that FLGRs in general neither help nor hurt accuracy.
It is impossible for a .45 auto recoil spring to bind & / or kink inside the gun with a GI type guide rod unless it was kinked before installation.
2 piece FLGRs are considered inferior to 1 pc guide rods by many as they can come apart and / or loose, and require a allen wrench for assembly and disassembly.
.45 autos having 2 piece FLGRs in most cases are easier to assemble and disassemble than those that do not have a FLGR. Depends mostly on the experience of the shooter in which system he has the most time with assembly &/or disassembly. Heavier spring rates are more difficult.
FLGRs add a little weight to the muzzle end of the gun, thus reducing recoil tip-up and aiding in the back on target time.
FLGRs can and probably will smooth out the cycling a tad.
Some FLGRs are available in tungsten, increasing the weight at the muzzle a tad more.
Most of the gamers and competition shooters use them in one form or another.
They do remove the "twang" sound when cycling your .45 auto by hand if it does so. Some .45 autos have that "Twang" and some don't. That is the recoil spring rubbing against the frame recoil spring tunnel generally.
I neither recommend nor not recommend the use FLGRs. Regardless of what others tell you it is strictly a matter of personal preference.
FLGRs do have quite a few haters, that's for sure.

FWIW, I use FLGRs in all 6 of my 1911 platform .45 autos.

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by robert84010 on 12/12/2017, 8:53 pm

T,
they make changing out a 22 conversion even easier so if that is the route you plan the guide rod does help there.

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by james r chapman on 12/12/2017, 9:05 pm

+1 what Robert said.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by LenV on 12/13/2017, 12:08 am

I use the Wilson Combat 1 piece full length in my 1911's. I like the extra weight. The Wilsons are nice because they are about 1/8" less then full length and you can take the pistol down without any special tools. The rod is just short enough you can depress plug/retainer and remove bushing without any problems. That said. With my hands I never take a 1911 down that way. I always rack the slide and remove pin while the slide is back. Less chasing down recoil springs that way. Rolling Eyes NFI

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/683445/wilson-combat-1-piece-full-length-recoil-spring-guide-rod-with-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government-stainless-steel
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 6:49 am

Jon Eulette wrote: 1 pc rod will damage bushing/barrel lockup (gall) because you have to twist bushing while in full battery.
Jon
Can you explain this situation a bit better?  I am trying to visualize how this problem is caused and must be missing something.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by kc.crawford.7 on 12/13/2017, 8:42 am

Because if you have to turn the bushing on the end of the barrel it has been fit to, you're turning the bushing in a direction that is directly opposite of what you fit it for.  You're unable to retract the slide a bit to get the bushing off the fit area of the barrel to take the pistol down.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Tim:H11 on 12/13/2017, 8:50 am

willnewton wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote: 1 pc rod will damage bushing/barrel lockup (gall) because you have to twist bushing while in full battery.
Jon
Can you explain this situation a bit better?  I am trying to visualize how this problem is caused and must be missing something.

I'm sure Jon could explain it better but I have a gun that Jon built or rather enhanced. A Springfield Mil Spec he turned into a wad gun for me. I was told not to turn the barrel bushing while the gun was still in battery when disassembling it for maintenance and cleaning. It's a tightly fitted part and there is some risk (or rather it will) of galling the barrel, bushing or both and making it more of a loose fit rather than the tight match fit I paid for. 

So to remove the bushing the barrel needs to be out of battery. The slide needs to be back so there is clearance between the bushing and the barrel. This way neither part binds on each other. To do this I pull the slide back and drop out the slide stop pin and remove the completed slide all together taking care to hang on to the recoil spring. Then I carefully allow the spring to come out, and now the barrel is loose. I slide the barrel forward some so the barrel protrudes out the end of the slide and now I'm safe to turn the bushing with a barrel bushing wrench. Assembly is just in reverse. A little tricky with the recoil spring but doable if practiced.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/13/2017, 9:11 am

Bushings are relieved on the top and bottom to allow barrel to lock into battery and to unlock during cycling. So the barrel pivots up and down vertically. When you twist the bushing with the barrel in battery, the tight non-relieved sides of the bushing dig into the barrel galling/scarring it. One piece guide guides cannot be removed without leaving barrel in battery and twisting the bushing. Like Tim said, its best to have barrel stick out of the slide approx 1" before twisting the bushing to prevent any galling because barrels are typically 0.005" smaller 1/2" from muzzle for clearance. Briley bushing; doesn't matter.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Gary Wells on 12/13/2017, 9:20 am

LenV wrote:I use the Wilson Combat 1 piece full length in my 1911's. I like the extra weight. The Wilsons are nice because they are about 1/8" less then full length and you can take the pistol down without any special tools. The rod is just short enough you can depress plug/retainer and remove bushing without any problems.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/683445/wilson-combat-1-piece-full-length-recoil-spring-guide-rod-with-recoil-spring-plug-1911-government-stainless-steel

I believe that all 1 piece FLGR's have to be that short for clearance reasons to install them in the slide when you complete the slide by itself to install the slide ass'y on the frame.




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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 9:46 am

I understand the mechanics of how it works and had a decent grasp on it beforehand, having built fitted guns and having several styles of guide rods in them.  Thanks for the responses nonetheless.

I just could not understand Jon’s reasoning for not buying a one-piece FLGR based on the order of disassembly.  

To me, the solution to prevent damage is to not disassemble a fitted pistol in a way that would likely cause damage no matter what style guide rod is installed. You are likely to mess something up on a fitted gun taking a locked up gun down that way, even with NO guide rod installed at all. 

It seems we all agree on this, but my question is why does that make a two piece guide rod style better than a one piece as Jon stated?   I am guessing he just takes his guns apart in a different order and it is personal preference, but wanted some clarity in case there was something new to be learned.

  I just remove the slide and take out the one-piece FLGR from the back and there is no issue with the guide rod and bushing whatsoever.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/13/2017, 10:08 am

Majority of 1 piece rods cannot be removed directly from the rear without removing spring & plug first. How do you do that without twisting the bushing first with barrel in battery?
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Multiracer on 12/13/2017, 10:36 am

Yep, what Jon just said.

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 10:43 am

Ah well, that may explain it.  Maybe, my pistols are in the minority and we have come to the root of the misunderstanding. Smile

For me, to take my one-piece FLGR pistols apart, I pull back the slide to compress the rod assembly and insert a bent retaining wire to keep the FLGR/spring/plug combo compressed as a unit.  I then remove the slide, and pull the compressed parts out the back of the slide.  The barrel link pin is back and you may have to turn the FLGR sideways to clear the lug and make sure the retaining wire is not causing a bind, but it comes out with no issue or harm.

I use EGW one-piece rod and plugs, Kart barrel/bushing, and rebuilt SA R.O.  I also have a similar frame up build on Nighthawk custom with the Wilson flat spring guide rod, which comes out even easier than the EGW FLGR, due to the narrower rod to fit the flat spring.

I have several more EGW one-piece rods for installing on future builds, including a Trophy Match that I will be replacing the two-piece with a one-piece FLGR.

Maybe it is by virtue of the retainer hole in the rods that allows it to come out the back.  I am not familiar with other replacement full-length guide rods.

You and I have simply had different experiences with one-piece FLGR.  I am glad we got it worked out.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 11:21 am

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by jglenn21 on 12/13/2017, 12:00 pm

one piece guide rod are cute... as noted they serve no positive nor negative affect as far as accuracy and function..

 they can get in the way of correctly removing a fit bushing..

I've used them in some carry guns I've built , but just plain don't see using them in a BE pistol.. sort of like a buffer.

just me
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/13/2017, 12:24 pm

willnewton wrote:

Ahh the fancy 1 piece with through hole for removal. Not all 1 piece rods have the hole ;l)
Thanks for the pics.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by troystaten on 12/13/2017, 12:32 pm

I was wondering why one would use the type of guide rod being talked about if it does not increase accuracy, does it increase reliability or reduce the perceived recoil?  Always learning, Thanks

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by james r chapman on 12/13/2017, 1:20 pm

I see some modifications in order!
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Chris Miceli on 12/13/2017, 1:38 pm

troystaten wrote:I was wondering why one would use the type of guide rod being talked about if it does not increase accuracy, does it increase reliability or reduce the perceived recoil?  Always learning, Thanks

The benfit i see is that you can take your whole upper off by just pushing out the slide lock pin.  So you can throw your conversion on top real fast.


Last edited by Chris Miceli on 12/13/2017, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 1:55 pm

@James- If you are feeling all DIY about it, I just checked my Wilson and EGW rods.  The hole is .0625" and 1.700" from the tip on center on both.  The hole for the wire is drilled in from an angle that pierces the rod at about 1:00 and 7:00 when viewed from the rear of the pistol, it is not a 90º vertical.

I use a piece of 1/16" copper coated welding rod with a 0.25" 90º bend in the end as my "wire tool".  It is 4" long.  Anything about that size will work, it should just be a stiff wire.

@Jon- Glad we got that cleared up now!


Last edited by willnewton on 12/13/2017, 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed a measurement)
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by SW-52 on 12/13/2017, 2:16 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:No benefit to accuracy. If you use one make sure it is a 2 pc rod. 1 pc rod will damage bushing/barrel lockup (gall) because you have to twist bushing while in full battery.
Jon
i have EGW two piece ss guide rod,works super.
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by james r chapman on 12/13/2017, 5:38 pm


This look about right?
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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

Post by Bullseye_Stan on 12/13/2017, 6:27 pm

Took me a while to figure out this discussion.  I can see the benefit of a recoil spring guide rod in slide removal.  Even if no conversion unit is used, I can see the guide rod helping with the recoil spring management.  That's not to say I'll rush out and get one, or that I'll ever get one, just that I can see a benefit (or potential benefit) from such a change.

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Re: Guide rod for 1911s

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