Ruger Mk II or Model 41 conversion

Hello Folks,

I feel the need for a more accurate 22 pistol, but at this time can't afford a top of the line pistol like the Walther GSP.  In the end, I'm prepared to wait and save, if that is the wise move.  Currently I have a Ruger Mk II, a Mk IV, and a very early S&W Model 41.  In practice I'm shooting better scores with my 45 than the 22, which makes me think an equipment improvement is appropriate.

I've been looking at Volquartsen conversions, which are basically a trigger kit (which I already have in both Rugers), a barrel change, and sights.  There are many models, which are all variations on this theme.  If you have experience with these guns, please share.

I've also been looking around at barrel relining options for the Model 41.  David Sams here in Virginia has a good reputation.  Is this an option to acquire a top-notch pistol?

I've considered the Clark drop-in barrels for the Model 41, but want to continue shooting open sights.

Thank you in advance for your helpful advice.

For your 41 you can try Alex at Ten-Ring Precision https://tenring.com/rimfire-22-accuracy/

Any of your .22's wil take you to Master or pretty darn close.  It may however be an easier path with a GSP or other top of the line gun.  Now there will be five Hi-Master Model 41 shooters bashing me for that!

The Rugers need a good trigger.  The Volquartsen is what most use.  On the MK IV the V. trigger is easy to adjust.  The MK II is harder.   

I have a bull barreled MK II that I bought in 1996.  It sits patiently in my safe not far from Nelson and Marvel conversions, and a Pardini.  Those are better shooters than the Ruger but not by much.  Dollar for dollar the Ruger is the best of them!

It it were me I'd send the Model 41 to David Sams for an evaluation.  That's where I'd put my money.

Kc works on 41s. Sams is the only one I let reline my 22s

Have you at least rested your 22's that you currently have to see what accuracy they are capable of? Might just need a trigger job to get you shooting them better. That's not as fun as a new fancy 22 but if you're tight on cash then it might help. I'm sure there are countless people that have hit master or even high master with Rugers and 41's with nothing more than a trigger job.

For what it's worth I've had my barrel relined by Alex (finding him via this forum) and was completely satisfied with the result.  I've also had KC look at it and he deemed the trigger in no need of further tuning.  I am the original owner of this M41 since 1983.  From a rest it will make 1 ragged hole at 50 yards.  All misses are strictly operator error.

Unless there is a specific issue with barrel accuracy, relining the barrel would not be the first thing I would do. I've rarely heard anyone in bullseye indicate their scores improved from this (other than a master level shooters). I have a Sam's relined 208s, it shoots extremely accurately, as do all my 22s when put in the Ransom Rest.  It might be a 1/2-1" better at 50 yards, unfortunately that doesn't help my scores at all.

The trigger and personal  gun ergonomics are more important.  

Used GSPs are available at pretty reasonable prices, although a 41 is an awful nice gun. If money is an issue, I'd send the 41 to a bullseye gunsmith to get the trigger done, without letting them talk you into a bunch of other stuff. 

No matter how much you spend, an Ruger/Volquartson will always be a Ruger/Volquartson, and a 41 always a 41. Not saying that is bad, just an observation from personal experience.

I really like the Nelson conversion for a 1911 but with out a dot sight mounted I find it a little on the light side. I use a S&W Model 41 for 22 EIC matches. I prefer the weight of that gun with irons. I use Herrett Nationals for grips on it. I’ve shot 98’s and 99’s in practice with it at 50 yards and mid 90’s in matches. I would say set up a pair of grips that fit your hand well, and that allows you to reach the trigger appropriately for your way of shooting, and have a good trigger job done to it. Grips and trigger. Those two things will make it feel and shoot like a totally different gun.

Several folks have recommended a trigger job.  The trigger on my M41 seems about perfect to me, but I don't have anything to which I can compare it.  I suspect that S&W took the time to adjust the trigger in 1957 when the gun was made, but again, nothing for comparison.  Maybe at the next match I attend I'll ask people to let me try theirs.

The grip on the Model 41 is too thin for my taste, especially up high where it's skinny like the top of a Coke bottle.  All of the grips I've investigated on the Internet appear to be thin (some say so).  Just for what it's worth, I had a set of Sambar Stag grip panels made for my 1911.  When I first picked it up after installing them, I knew I was where I needed to be.  They are considerably thicker than any other 1911 grips I've tried, and they fit perfectly!  I suspect I'll have to have custom grips made for the Model 41 to get a similar fit.  There's nobody here that can make them though.

So how does your 41 perform when benched?

Boxturtle wrote:The grip on the Model 41 is too thin for my taste, especially up high where it's skinny like the top of a Coke bottle.  All of the grips I've investigated on the Internet appear to be thin (some say so).  Just for what it's worth, I had a set of Sambar Stag grip panels made for my 1911.  When I first picked it up after installing them, I knew I was where I needed to be.  They are considerably thicker than any other 1911 grips I've tried, and they fit perfectly!  I suspect I'll have to have custom grips made for the Model 41 to get a similar fit.  There's nobody here that can make them though.

Try Herret slab side grips. They’re called trainers I think.

Hi Zane,  Haven't been to the range since this morning.  Will bench check the M41 next week.  I've written to Ransom about purchasing a grip insert set, but they didn't bother to reply.

I got the M41 out of the safe and checked the trigger.  It has a little bit of slack, which I like.  The pull weight is two pounds, on the money.  Motion of the trigger while applying the two pounds is imperceptible.  There is no perceptible over-travel.

Hi Tim,

I've considered the Herretts Trainer stocks, and discussed them in another thread.  A nice fellow here offered to sell me a used set, but he said I would have to add shims under the screw heads because the grips are thinner than S&W stock panels.  He said that without the shims the screws would stick out on the other side.  My understanding is that they approximate a 1911 grip with thin grip panels.  A thick grip is most comfortable for me.

Does anybody here know if I can add 1/16" flat panels under the Herretts Trainer grips to make the grip 1/8" wider?  I realize that would cause a gap front and rear.  Would the gap be only cosmetic, or would the structural integrity of the grip be compromised?

Thanks, Tom

CMM or Doug Hall make under grip spacers of various thickness.

What are your scores if under 800 do nothing pick one gun and stick with it, If you are shooting the Rugers better my suggestion is to send the one you like the best to Sams and get it relined. 

If its the 41, then maybe try the trainers or I liked the Harrett's grips that resembled the Factory grips I worked them some and stippled the back and I shot it better but the 41 was not for me. 

Also where are your score lagging, if its SF then I would stick to the M41. If its slow fire, you need to dry fire more. 

Or sell the Rugers and buy a good used GSP or sell everything and buy a GSP.

Have you shot your .22 pistols from a rest at 50 yards to see how they group? And have you tried different types of ammo?

Sometimes all a .22 needs to shoot better is a different load. And what groups best in one pistol may or may not shoot well in the other.

"H41 Checkered Gun Stock" is what Herrett calls the particular model of stocks that I was referring to. I have a pair. They are wider at the top where the web of your hand and thumb would go around than the "traditional" or factory grips. The screws stick out a little further than normal but not further than the wood. No spacers needed. Even if they happen to a little you could get a second set of screws and file them down a little. The grips might even come with screws. Herrett makes a trainer model that has a flat "mainspring housing" area. The set of grips I have, have an arched "mainspring housing" area. The trainers with the flat back are thinner than the ones with the arch. And the ones with the arch has swells almost like a thumb rest.

Herrett Automatics if you really want more meat.

http://www.herrettstocks.com/tgtauto.htm



The Fungs are bigger also but surprisingly a little harder to get good grip. YMMV


Left to Right. Fungs, New factory, Herrett Nationals. Herrett Automatic Target and Old originals

Len, are the new and old 41 factory grips the same shape?  In the photo they look different, but that could just be the angle, difference in checkering and reflection.

S&W has not changed the design of the Model 41 since the initial production in 1957.  Grips for my 1957 model will fit current production guns.

Aprilian wrote:Len, are the new and old 41 factory grips the same shape?  In the photo they look different, but that could just be the angle, difference in checkering and reflection.

The grips from old production and new are interchangeable but the new ones are bigger. They are wider and have a larger feel. Also quite a bit heavier but the old grips might be dried out a bit in 47 years.

LenV wrote:

Aprilian wrote:Len, are the new and old 41 factory grips the same shape?  In the photo they look different, but that could just be the angle, difference in checkering and reflection.

The grips from old production and new are interchangeable but the new ones are bigger. They are wider and have a larger feel. Also quite a bit heavier but the old grips might be dried out a bit in 47 years.

laminate will be heavier than hardwood,

and Len is correct on the girth or size


I have a 60's vintage that fits my hand perfectly using factory grips,

I have a couple year old model in the case at work, and those new laminated looking grips are just a bit bigger,

Yesterday I bench tested my Model 41.  The wind was blowing so hard that a gust blew one of my leather sandbags off the bench.  My suede pistol rug went downrange.  My 65 year-old eyes and the 61 year-old original sights directed the Model 41 sufficiently well to shoot several five-shot one-inch groups at 25 yards before I went back to my regular practice, and shot my personal best 22 target.  I guess I'll keep it.  :-)

A fellow here sold me a used Herretts H-41 stock.  I'm going to try it, and then (if needed) I will build it up with Bondo and shape it to work for me.

Thanks Fellows.

I stand by a Mark ll with a Volquarsten trigger group, a good set of grips, and CCI SV.