50 foot shooting

I have shot 50 foot before with my 22lr pistol, and have done well. I tried that for the first time today with my .45. I did not do well. My question is, does shooting at 50 feet lead to improvement at 25 and 50 yard shooting? The Bull on the 50 foot target sure looks smaller than at 25 and 50. I had a real hard time keeping my dot in the black on Timed and Rapid. If I thought it would help I would keep shooting it. Thanks for your thoughts.

The scoring rings are proportional from 50' to 50 yards on slow fire, same for the rapid fire targets.  Personally, I normally shoot better on the outdoor, longer range targets than indoors...

The biggest issue with indoor ranges is the sucky lighting.  That’s why most people suck at 50 feet.

Wobbley wrote:The biggest issue with indoor ranges is the sucky lighting.  That’s why most people suck at 50 feet.

Are you shooting with irons or dot sights?
Jon

Both.  With dots I do better.  Irons suck...

I believe many shooters have a tendency to look at the target when the target is closer.  Easier for the eye to try and look at it instead of the front sight. Even in poor lighting you should be able to get a group, but it might not be centered if lighting is an issue. Also for the 50 ft Target I believe you need to be more demanding of accepting your hold otherwise you’ll snatch shots. So if your not getting groups it’s a fundamentals issue. Most likely a combination of them, not just one.
Jon

Jon, that may be, but the real issu is lighting.  I have few issues outdoors, but indoors I have difficulty focusing on the sights because there very little light on the sights.  The majority is coming from the target and the sights are being shadowed from what ambient light there is at the firing point.  This range doesn’t meet the ISSF conditions for indoor range light.

Wobbley wrote:Jon, that may be, but the real issu is lighting.  I have few issues outdoors, but indoors I have difficulty focusing on the sights because there very little light on the sights.  The majority is coming from the target and the sights are being shadowed from what ambient light there is at the firing point.  This range doesn’t meet the ISSF conditions for indoor range light.

We had the same lighting issue before we did a rework which added in some track lighting directly over the firing points.  Would the range management and other officials allow a portable clip up light above your point, or a head light?  Prior to our remodeling, some of our shooters had temporary lights mounted on the ceiling above their regular points.

Would the range install additional lighting, if requested?

Ed, I’ve asked before...”they’re working on it” was the answer.  But still no joy.  If I could find a decent little clamp on battery powered light...

To respond to the question asked... which was "My question is, does shooting at 50 feet lead to improvement at 25 and 50 yard shooting?" 


I say it does simply because you are shooting and hopefully learning. If you are not learning from it then it is a waste of time.

I learn something every time I shoot. Sometimes I have to relearn some things. You would think with all that learning I would be a High Master by now ;-)

Steve B wrote:The scoring rings are proportional from 50' to 50 yards on slow fire, same for the rapid fire targets.  Personally, I normally shoot better on the outdoor, longer range targets than indoors...

That's not actually true.  They are nearly scaled/proportional, but not quite.  Which one is easier or harder depends on what caliber you are shooting (because a given caliber makes the same size hole at every distance; the bullet holes do not scale by distance).  For example, the 50 foot targets are genuinely harder with a 22, compared to the 25yd or 50yd targets.  See also: http://www.indecorous.com/bullseye/rings.html

But overall, it's a balance and a very intelligent person put real thought into the exact dimensions of the bullseye targets... for a full 2700, shooting 22-38-45 or 22-45-45 at the normal combination of slow and sustained fire targets, you'll find that your scores are very nearly the same at any distance.  If you consistently get significantly different 2700 scores at different distances, you cannot blame the targets.  It could be an equipment issue (i.e. reasonable 25yd accuracy, but relatively poor 50yd accuracy), but the most likely cause is psychological.

Dave

50 foot targets require a better hold ( less wobble) but angular errors ( trigger induced and other) aren't as punishing.

Think about it, of you are aligned, you can move up down left and right by several inches and still get a 10 at 50 yards, not so at 50 feet. So the answer is yes, and no depending on your errors. 

Angular errors from gun movement during barrel time, triggering etc compound with distance.

Wobbley wrote:Jon, that may be, but the real issu is lighting.  I have few issues outdoors, but indoors I have difficulty focusing on the sights because there very little light on the sights.  The majority is coming from the target and the sights are being shadowed from what ambient light there is at the firing point.  This range doesn’t meet the ISSF conditions for indoor range light.

Do you have an adjustable iris?  My indoor range has horrible lighting and the sights become blurry if they don't open the vents.   Putting the iris on clears the sights up pretty well for me

"First time 45"


More practice is needed.    With good lighting my 50ft scores were better then outdoor with a 22lr. 

The 50 ft target and 45 are just to hard to score. One big hole.

Appreciated Jon Eulette's point that if you're not getting groups there is something wrong in the fundamentals.  I have been struggling with my .45 at 50 ft, and this comment caused me to think "why am I not at least getting groups, even if they are grouping where I don't want them"?  With .45 it can always be a lot of things, but instead of fiddling with my sights I'm going to just try to get consistent groups.  Obvious but not so obvious.