.22 ammo - at what speed does ammo go beyond "standard velocity" ?

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Post by mikemyers on 8/23/2019, 11:00 pm

I was under the impression that standard velocity .22 LR ammo was ammo that shot at under the speed of sound.

I found the following explanation on Google: 
  
Standard velocity


  • The velocity of standard-velocity .22 LR rounds varies between manufacturers. Some standard velocity ammo may be slightly supersonic-around 1,125 ft/s (343 m/s), other ammo such as CCI Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition is rated at 1,070 ft/s (330 m/s).





I purchased some "Aguila .22 Solid Point Super Extra Standard Velocity" ammo, which is rated at 1,130 FPS. My question - if I'm trying to only shoot Standard Velocity ammo in my S&W Model 41 and Nelson kit, is the Aguila ammo really "standard velocity"?  


Follow-up question - over what speed is 22 ammo no longer considered "standard velocity".....   and over what speed should ammo not be fired in guns such as the S&W Model 41 ?
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Post by Joe Morgan on 8/23/2019, 11:02 pm

Speed of sound, please look it up. Do you do any testing that can be replicated?

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Post by TonyH on 8/24/2019, 7:15 am

Not sure what "slightly" supersonic means - it either is or it isn't. When you look the the advertised speed for ammo, look at the barrel length the ammo was fired in to get that speed....typically rifle length barrels, but check specs by manufacturer. You will get lower speeds from a pistol barrel.
Not much here for "SV" ammo but the table demonstrates what I said above..
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html. When in doubt, run it over a chronograph to get real world velocities, if that is important to you.
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Post by BE Mike on 8/24/2019, 7:40 am

Most certainly all standard velocity ammo will shoot well below the speed of sound in your pistol. Over the years Aguila has been good stuff, but S&W model 41's often are picky and don't like to function with it.
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Post by mikemyers on 8/24/2019, 7:54 am

Joe Morgan wrote:Speed of sound, please look it up. Do you do any testing that can be replicated?
Joe, that's a test I don't want to do, using faster ammo and seeing if it will damage my gun.  I'd rather stay on the safe side.

Based on what I just read here, shooting any of this SV ammo in a handgun, it will fire at a speed lower than what's noted on the box.  Need to check that out when I get a better internet connection.  I never considered that....    The ammo box ought to say that the noted speed is with a rifle barrel.

I haven't gotten to test the Auguila yet - will do so this coming Wednesday.  

The "speed of sound" part I understand, but not the "slighty supersonic".  To me, that's like saying someone is "slightly pregnant".  Not good, to me it "is" or "isn't", but in this case to get the correct value, I now know I need to measure the length of the barrel and look it up - or get the tools to measure the velocity of my ammo.  I was tempted to buy a chronometer a while back, but was persuaded it wasn't worth doing unless I was developing ammo loads, which I'm not.
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Post by dronning on 8/24/2019, 8:23 am

Pretty complete 22 ammo spec chart: http://ruger1022.com/docs/22lrballistics.htm

  • All ballistic data listed is from manufacturer data using test barrels (20″ -24″).

I'd guess they use same test procedures including 20"-24" barrel length for ammo identified as "Pistol" just to be consistent.  I sent that question for clarification to Eley.

- Dave
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Post by Kp321 on 8/24/2019, 8:41 am

The main question is whether the ammo is safe for constant use in a M41. Any ammo in that velocity range is ok for M41 use, avoid the 1250-1450 fps stuff for extended use.

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Post by Wobbley on 8/24/2019, 9:05 am

Standard velocity is NOT defined by SAAMI. I looked for it in the specs. They only list the velocities of ammunition as produced today.

All velocities are conducted in test barrels 24 inches long.

Rifle “Match” ammunition is listed at 1100 fps.
Pistol “Match” ammunition is listed at 1135 fps, presumably to give a reserve of power to operate the pistol.

I believe the term “Standard Velocity” heartens back to the old blackpowder load of the 22 extra long. That load gave around 1100 fps with a 40 grain bullet. The “long rifle” came from loading 22Long cases with the 40 grain bullet of the extra long. When smokeless came along the high velocity rounds emerged.
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Post by Allgoodhits on 8/24/2019, 9:33 am

Reading carefully, one has to wonder why they would test ammo designated as pistol loadings out of a 24" barrel? I guess, just to give a better idea from control group.

In one example cited Rifle Match ammo listed at 1100 fps and this would be out of a rifle length barrel. Pistol Match cited as 1135 fps out of a rifle length barrel. My guess is that from a 5 - 6" barrel then the pistol ammo velocity would be more similar to what is advertised on the packaging. That typically is in the 1070 - 1090 fps range.  I have not chromed any of these.

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Post by Jack H on 8/24/2019, 9:44 am

A few years ago I chronoed several SV ammos from my then Marvel conversion

Slowest was about 930fps - Eley, CCI SV, SK, RWS, 900B

Fastest was about 1050fps - T22 the fastest

Several others were in between


Remington SV from an old batch I had went about 1020 from the Marvel.  And went 995 from my 41 with shortened 7" barrel to 5.5"

SK at 930 did not cycle the 41 half the time.  The slowest of three Eley ammo also at 930, did cycle faithfully. 

SK also did not cycle the Marvel.
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Post by jglenn21 on 8/24/2019, 5:51 pm

Aguila pistol match is one of the few that list the velocity out of a pistol.. Think it is  around 925 FPS out of a 5" barrel
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Post by dronning on 8/28/2019, 1:49 pm

dronning wrote:Pretty complete 22 ammo spec chart: http://ruger1022.com/docs/22lrballistics.htm

  • All ballistic data listed is from manufacturer data using test barrels (20″ -24″).

I'd guess they use same test procedures including 20"-24" barrel length for ammo identified as "Pistol" just to be consistent.  I sent that question for clarification to Eley.

- Dave
Eley sent me response to my question about the barrel length for pistol ammo testing:
====================
Thank you for your submission.

I can confirm we test all our ammunition in a 24inch rifle barrel for velocity. This includes our pistol products.

Kind Regards,

John Spellacy
Global Sales and Shipping Administrator
===========================
- Dave
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Post by Slartybartfast on 8/28/2019, 3:32 pm

Allgoodhits wrote:Reading carefully, one has to wonder why they would test ammo designated as pistol loadings out of a 24" barrel? I guess, just to give a better idea from control group.
Because SAMII says to test it out a rifle length test barrel.

See page 66:
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.1-Rimfire-2015-R2018-Approved-2018-06-13.pdf
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