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Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight

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Allgoodhits
Jon Eulette
spursnguns
james r chapman
STEVE SAMELAK
DA/SA
SteveT
CR10X
mikemyers
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Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight - Page 3 Empty Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight

Post by mikemyers 8/31/2019, 10:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

I'm posting this as a new topic, so it doesn't get lost.  CR10X left a response to my previous post, that went totally over my head.  I read the words, but didn't understand what he meant.

Post was:  https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t12728-pistol-team-workbook-how-to-aim-at-blank-paper-using-a-red-dot-sight

The thing CR10X wrote that this new thread is about was:


  • ".........So, remove anything that temps you to look, aim, see, distract you from using whatever you have (front and rear sight alignment or dot in the tube) to work on and INSURE (sic) you are constantly keeping the gun PARALLEL with your intended line of sight.  Wobble all you want / have to but work on keeping the gun aligned.  And that means working with a blank target..........."



I puzzled over it, then asked Dave Salyer about it, and Dave gave me a simpler explanation, which now I think I finally understand.  The key, for me, was "This is Cecil’s way of saying, keep the sights aligned between your eye and your aiming area.  Let's say your eye sways a little with your body. You can stay aligned if you don’t bend your wrist or get distracted.  Bad shots come when the angle of the gun changes, not with normal wobble. Your shots will cluster in the middle of your hold area if you just let the shot break subconsciously."


What I'm thinking now is I must be pretty ignorant about things, and/or locked into my way of doing things, that the real meaning of CR's words didn't hit me until I read it again just before doing some dry-firing.  If the gun is pointed at the bullseye, and wobbles to the right or left, say, 1/4", the hole in the target will be the same 1/4" away from dead center.  But if the gun moves in a way that it's no longer facing the target, maybe it's pointing up, down, right, or left, the hole will be way off from the center.  This leads to the thought of how to keep the gun perfectly parallel to a line between me and the target.


That got me to wondering how to prevent it.  The first place that might affect it is my shoulder, but I think that's unlikely.  The second place is my elbow, but if I keep my elbow locked, that's not going to be much of an issue.  What's left, is my wrist.  If my wrist flexes in any direction, the gun won't be pointing at the target.  The round will go off in a line away from the target.  Not good.

The rest of what I write might be way off base - I'm just thinking out loud.  I know that my wrist is not "locked", and I never figured out a way to lock it.  With this in mind, if my wrist is straight ahead, it's free to "flop" around, and it's impossible for me to "lock it in place".  But if I bend my right wrist to the right, and tense my muscles, there is a place where it starts to feel like it's locked to my arm.

For an hour or so I tried dry firing like this.  Interesting observations, the gun for the first time ever felt like it was rigid.  If so, that is good.  Next, the gun needed to be in my grip in a way that I could see the sights properly.   That was do-able.  Finally, I found it wasn't possible to line up the gun with my eye, but it was effortless to line up my eye with the gun.

Interestingly enough, while it was only dry fire, my wobble was greatly reduced, and when I "fired" the dot didn't move - I heard the 'CLICK' but nothing changed.  Nice.



Maybe I finally caught on to something the rest of you just do naturally.  For me, it's a whole different way of seeing things.  
There is no need for me to worry about the wobble, nor do I need to keep the dot right over the X.  
The far more important thing is to keep the gun parallel with the intended line of sight (which among other things means a locked wrist).      
 .......I think this is what CR10X was trying to teach me.  
From now on, my dry firing will be at a blank wall, and keeping my wrist locked.

........and I need to remember that 
"Every shot that hits somewhere in. you're hold area is a good shot for you.  
Every shot that is outside your wobble is due to an angular error you committed."

Sometimes I overthink things, but may not see/recognize what's right in front of my eyes.     

Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight - Page 3 Drunken_smilie
mikemyers
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Post by mikemyers 9/9/2019, 3:25 pm

Thanks to all of you.  

Rather than writing more, I'm going to continue to work on the above, both in dry-fire and at the range. 

I got an email from Linda Dillon this morning, and had a long talk with Chuck Wachsmuth, the President of our club.  They've been watching me since I very first got involved in Bullseye, five years ago or so.  They are pleased with the progress, and feel I need to continue with lots of practice, and sign up for more matches.  I showed Chuck all the things I've learned recently, stance, grip, where and how I position myself - his advice is to keep at it.  Dave Salyer mostly wants me to start attending more matches; everything he has told me, I'm now doing (to the best of my ability).  

To sum it all up, I left the range early this afternoon with a smile on my face, no frustration.  Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Post by Aprilian 9/9/2019, 5:38 pm

mikemyers wrote:I left the range early this afternoon with a smile on my face, no frustration.
The rest is just details.

Congrats.
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Post by mikemyers 9/10/2019, 3:33 pm

Small update, just to show how much your help over the past couples of weeks has meant.  Last week I posted photos of my 45 and 22 targets, where the holes pretty much filled up the target.  They're still posted here, on page 1 of this discussion.

With the changes that this discussion has led to, here are the last two targets from today, 45 (Caspian, Aimpoint Micro sight), and then 22 (S&W 41, Vortex Venom sight).  I'll be cleaning the 41 and putting it away for a while - from now on, my goal is to shot the Caspian with the 45 slide, and with the Nelson on top.

As to the targets below, I accept that they're not all that good yet, but they're considerably better than the similar images I posted last week!
Two days in a row, going home happy!!

Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight - Page 3 Img_5712


Keeping a gun parallel with your intended line of sight - Page 3 Img_1712

Oh, and Jim, I stopped sighting in the 45 when I ran out of ammo, and I stopped sighting in the 22 when I started feeling uncomfortably hot.
I'll finish that tomorrow or Thursday.
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Post by DA/SA 9/10/2019, 3:39 pm

Great progress!

Keep working on it.
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Post by Olde Pilot 9/10/2019, 4:27 pm

Strongly recommend you switch solely to NRA targets and shoot them only at appropriate distance(s). I know the experts say practice on targets with no scoring rings, blank paper, etc. But, at this point, I think you need to practice only with the proper target & distance you shoot in BE matches. And, shoot some approved matches to get a true classification (even if you have to travel to St Pete or even Jacksonville to do so). And, choose one of your .22s and one CF gun and stick with them for a while. You have a lot of variables now with guns & techniques.

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Post by DA/SA 9/10/2019, 4:39 pm

I was shooting just the repair centers stapled to cardboard and found that shooting at the full size B-8(P) target at my first match made everything look different. Now I use the B-8(P) along with repair centers so everything looks the same at practice/training as it does in a match.


Last edited by DA/SA on 9/10/2019, 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by mikemyers 9/10/2019, 4:40 pm

I now have 200 B-8 NRA targets, and a package of 50 repair center targets for use at 50 yards (I forget the designation).  
I'll continue to dry-fire on a white wall as recommended earlier - seems to help big time.
...and I'll dry-fire with my lead-filled magazine.

Targets at the range will be at 25 yards mostly, sometimes 50.  

My single Bullseye gun will be the Caspian, with the Nelson or 45 upper; each has an Aimpoint Micro.

=====================

I can't limit myself to only the Caspian, as there are too many other things I also want to do, such as Black Powder, and my revolvers, and for that matter, my Model 52, and soon the PPK /S.  For one-hand Bullseye shooting (unless a problem develops), it will exclusively be done with the Caspian  =  one trigger, one grip, and only the Aimpoint Micro for sights.

As to matches, I can shoot at the club matches except when I'm off in India.  I don't have any desire to start traveling around for competition elsewhere, even though I know it would help.
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Post by Olde Pilot 9/10/2019, 4:47 pm

Sorry Mike. I had assumed you were totally focused on BE with BE guns. Didn't realize have such a broad range of interests in other shooting. Best wishes.

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