Ammo for testing standard

As I grapple with my marksmanship and my hand-loading concurrently, what is a good/acceptable factory ammo to use as a standard to test against?

A couple options and their potential would be good to know.  IE federal match should hold this, winchester ball that, etc.

Maybe another way to put it; if you had to buy store ammo the day/hour before a match, what would you get (or avoid) and what would you expect from it?

Here's a few... Zero loaded ammo from Rose Distribution. Atlanta Arms and Federal Gold Medal Match. You likely won't find any good match ammo off the shelf. Plan ahead and order online.

+1 for Zane.
Federal GMM is dead reliable for 45 long line.
Atlanta Arms Elite 9mm transformed the performance of my 1911 9mm, really good groups.
Not tried Zero brand ammo, but their bullets are excellent.

Do you load lead or jacketed? Typically it is harder to find lead loads. It is not impossible (I have had reasonable luck with Zero) but planning ahead is key. For jacketed loads you have more options but unless you have a local shop with an emphasis on competitive shooting, your options may be limited, and again planing ahead is key. 

If you are questioning your hand loads, try shooting them from a sandbag or a rest. Also factory tends to run a bit hotter than most people's hand loads, so part of the equation is what are you looking for from your loads, economy, or tuned to your gun?

I use Federal gold medal match 185 gr.     This shows me how accurate my gun can be.   I can almost get as good groups with zero  185 JHP.  

David

Merick wrote:As I grapple with my marksmanship and my hand-loading concurrently, what is a good/acceptable factory ammo to use as a standard to test against?

A couple options and their potential would be good to know.  IE federal match should hold this, winchester ball that, etc.

Maybe another way to put it; if you had to buy store ammo the day/hour before a match, what would you get (or avoid) and what would you expect from it?

What caliber are you looking for?

S148 wrote:What caliber are you looking for?

 
45 acp.

Right now I'm shooting my cast loads and who knows if those are any good,

but in the future I'll need jacketed for EIC (I guess, who knows what the rules will be next year).

"who knows if those are any good"

well you are supposed to know. 

Are your shots on call?  Are your 22 shots all on call?

robert84010 wrote:"who knows if those are any good"

well you are supposed to know. 

Are your shots on call?  Are your 22 shots all on call?

My air gun shots are on call, my 22 is in pieces spread across the work bench.

My cast bullets have been *cough* hit and miss.

Hmmm....

Stating the obvious. Get your 22 fixed, sort out your technique with that. Then work on your 45. You will just be wasting big money on good factory 45 ammo otherwise. IMHO.

If all shots are on call, the next step is are you pointing in the middle?


Even a mediocre 45 with mediocre handloads will shoot all 10's at 25 yards on T/R target. If your regulation air pistol targets are usually 48's and 49's for a 5 shot series and all your 22 T/R targets are cleans then maybe there is an ammo issue with the 45.



it's not the ammo. sorry. This isn't rifle, even though rifle ammo can be pretty easy to make and shoot well.

It CAN be the ammo and gun. Not all box stock guns can hold the 10 ring at 25 yards and really lousy ammo in a good gun will also open up a lot. A leaded up barrel will not hold the 10 ring.

The best solution is to have a good local shooter try the gun with their ammo.

Next step would be to try a few factory target loads. For jacketed ASYM or Atlanta Arms would be the top of my list with Zero and Michigan Ammo not too far behind. Both Zero and Michigan also make decent lead target ammo. Does NSK still make ammo? I haven't heard much from Neil lately.

If you want to send the guy on a goose chase testing ammo, or thinking his gun is bad go right ahead. You know better than I, Steve, this is a game of sight alignment and trigger control. I do agree with having someone else try the gun and ammo out.
You introduced a whole new element though, the gun. He doesn't seem to doubt the gun. The original question was about ammo and like I said "a mediocre gun with mediocre ammo", not lousy.  I'm coming from the prospective that a while ago I owned a 1911 built in 1918 with nothing but a trigger job cleanup. It was actually a DCM gun from the mid 60's and rattled like crazy. held 10 ring with ammo I smashed out on my 550. Stock 92f with a trigger clean up held 10 ring with issue M882 Navy ball at 25 timed fire. I only give advice based on my experience. I guess I should have kept the targets but at the time I thought it was no big deal.
Factory ammo is nothing magical. It doesn't shoot the best in all guns, just well in many. It doesn't make a marksman into a master. Factories don't weigh bullets or measure brass or do anything but make it quickly.

robert84010 wrote:If you want to send the guy on a goose chase testing ammo...

No wild goose chase intended, exactly the opposite. It was a response to a shooter without a listed classification, so I assume he is new to the sport and probably to precision shooting. He doubts his ammo. I don't want him chasing his tail trying different loads if his gun or technique is lacking. That's why I suggested the best solution was a known good shooter with their, presumably known good, ammo. It eliminates 2 of the 3 sources of error.

Merick wrote:As I grapple with my marksmanship and my hand-loading concurrently, what is a good/acceptable factory ammo to use as a standard to test against?

A couple options and their potential would be good to know.  IE federal match should hold this, winchester ball that, etc.

Maybe another way to put it; if you had to buy store ammo the day/hour before a match, what would you get (or avoid) and what would you expect from it?

I think, what is missing here is understanding that whichever ammo is used, it must be tested in the particular gun before hand.  Regardless if it is your own handloads or factory.  And testing should be done the way it eliminates human errors as much as possible, i.e. using rest or sand bags, and that in combination with more than one shooter.  Approach of buying factory ammo hour before match is best route to failure, as even best factory ammo varies from lot to lot, and depends heavily on production times.  Remington's 38 Special WadCutter is the best illustration for that.  So if you intent to use your own loads, concentrate on testing and perfecting it, as you have much better chance of repeatability of it.  If you want to use retail ammo, buy several suggested here, test each, find what works best, and then buy truck load of same lot so it last.

That IMHO. 
AP

Some things I know, many more I don't, but I do have my rifle badge so I have a fair outline of what I need to figure out.  

Until I can prove otherwise I doubt the gun, the ammo, and myself.  The plan is to break the system into bits so I can identify and work on it a part at a time. Right now I'm asking about what ammo I can use as a control, so I can see what the other problems are.

If were to try shopping for 45 acp ammo, fgmm sounds like the standard, if you can't find that, what would you get next, and after that?  What is pointless for our purposes or to be avoided?

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/45acp/Federal-handgun-185grains-target

Plenty available in various outlets. 
You can use Ammoseek for pretty much any ammo. 

It might be hard to find ammo by Atlanta Arms, Zero or other boutique reloaders as it is often backordered.  That would necessitate to get on their notification lists.

AP

200 gr LSWC with 4.0 gr BE, mixed brass, 0.920" form the base of the case to the bullet shoulder and 0.465" crimp has held 2" in almost every good gun I have tested with a RR. Cheap ammo that lets you know if it's you or the gun; it will shoot on call.

Ultimately you have to be able to call your shots. If you call a 10 at 3 o'clock and it's an 6 at 7 o'clock then it's not the ammo. Too many shooters get wrapped up in the ammo part of BE. Better time spent dry firing and shooting than being a High Master Reloader. 

Like Steve said, get a good shooter to shoot your gun/ammo combination to see if acceptable.

Jon

Classic question: How do l get my guns to shoot better? Ans: "Give them to someone else" smile