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Post by CrankyThunder on 10/17/2020, 8:00 am

The Rulez.
 
Your competition firearms are your life.  They are the best specimens of the best designs using the highest quality materials.  Improvements are done without question, maintenance is top notch and performed immediately after a match or practice session. 


If it is displayed that one of your competition firearms is substandard in any way, it shall be upgraded, repaired, or replaced. Immediately! Period!


The Value of the vehicle that delivers you to the match shall never exceed the value of the firearms you shoot in the match.  

Since your competition firearms are so valuable, thou shalt not trust safety of said firearms to the gorillas in the airline baggage handling department.  With that being said, the only acceptable method of transportation to and from matches are from said vehicle mentioned above.  Firearms shall not remain in unattended vehicle for a period greater then 30 mins, and shall be properly locked up and secured for that less then 30 minute duration.  When Hotels and other lodging is utilized, firearms shall be removed from vehicle and stored in sleeping quarters.  No exceptions shall be made to this rule, even when the vehicle is locked in a secured garage with electronic security systems and intruder alerts. 


.45 ACP matches are shot with .45 ACP caliber firearms and ammo. 
         22LR matches are shot with 22LR caliber firearms and ammo.
         Centerfire matches are shot with .45 caliber firearms and ammo. 
         Revolver matches are shot with .38’s, .357, .45, and in some instances 22LR.
         Bullseye shooters do not use .32 caliber firearms or ammo. 

Pistol boxes are used in one of two conditions: Totally organized or a complete disaster.  Select one.  


There are no scheduled matches too far away.

Your .45 caliber firearm will be a 1911 just as the good lord presented to his deciple John Moses Browning and commanded “Thou shalt slay thein enemies with this 1911 Caliber .45".


Magazines shall be inserted in the grip of the firearm just as the good lord intended with his 1911 masterpiece.  Thou shalt not put a magazine forward of the trigger guard.  


Stickers belong on pistol boxes, they do not belong on guns.  Wimpy Europeans put stickers on their guns and they only shoot wimpy 22LR firearms or .177 air guns.  Bullseye shooters shoot .45’s, 38’s and 22LR without stickers.  


Stickers on pistol boxes shall only display firearm manufacturers, equipment, and suppliers.  I do not care that your kid was on the honor roll at stumpy creek remedial middle school in 2005, put that sticker on your grocery getter.  Shooters displaying a “Gil Hebard Guns, Knoxville, Ill” on their gun box shall get a ½ point added to their bullseye score.  


Scores shall be calculated using a #2 pencil manufactured in the USA using old school math.  Calculations may be performed on the back of used targets if necessary and double checked.  The use of electronic calculators or cell phone apps is prohibited.  


Shooters shall secure their guns with lock and key at all times they are not competing or practicing.  Shooters shall not “loose” their guns.  If a shooter “looses” their competition firearm, they shall be prohibited from all future competition.  (see Stolen Guns Below).


While loosing a firearm is unforgivable,  having a competition firearm stolen is a infrequent, but tragic occurrence.  Shooters suffering from the theft of a firearm shall pursue said thief with the utmost of diligence.  They shall use all methods available to recover stolen firearms, including law enforcement.  Fellow competitors shall make every effort to assist victim in recovery of said firearm.  


Once a firearm is used in competition, that firearm will not be sold, gifted, or “Loaned Indefinitely” to another shooter. The competitor shall own and posess that firearm until death or retirement from the sport.  The only exception is that a firearm may be loaned to a fellow shooter for evaluation purposes for a specified length of time, not to exceed 30 days.  Competition firearms are acquired, competed with, cherished, and hoarded for eventual redistribution via inheritance to a deserving family member or younger, deserving shooter that competitor has mentored.  


Spotting Scopes:  Spotting scopes if utilized shall be ancient Bushnell Spacemaster in a generally deplorable condition.  Shooter will get ½ point added to his score if spotter is a ancient spacemaster with the rotating eyepiece to select various powers. The only exception is the aging shooter with diminished eyesight.  Said shooter may replace ancient spacemaster with current production high quality European spotting scope with a 50 mm objective diameter or less.  


Pistol Boxes shall contain firearms, ammo, spotting scope, spare parts, cleaning supplies, and ECI indicator only.  Extra items such as chewing gum, sunscreen, water bottles, insect repellent, bourbon flask, sandwiches, leftover pizza, etc. shall be carried in a separate rucksack.  


Pistol Boxes shall be transported from vehicle to the shooting line by carrying it awkwardly with a strap over the shoulder.  Pistol boxes shall not be insulted by being placed in a cart, wagon, stroller, or dolly.  


Thou shalt dry fire or live fire practice every day.


When competing, cell phones and other electronic devices shall be stored in vehicle under lock and key.  The only exception is if cell phone is used to broadcast bullseye commands via wired or bluetooth speaker and when operated as such, all external notifications shall be muted.  


Since Bullseye competition is a black and white sport, a shot is either a 9 or a ten, there are no 9 ½. Bullseye shooters shall conduct themselves in the most honest and straightforward manor.  We might be tenacious, we might be insistent, and we can argue if a specific shot is a nine or a ten but once a determination has been made we accept the determination and move on.  We understand that basic honesty is the keystone of this sport and shall avoid any individuals displaying anything less then stellar integrity. 


Absolutely everything on a competitors person shall be made available to a fellow competitor such that said competitor may compete in that match.  We are as a group, proud that we will lend our fellow shooters the ammo they need to beat the snot out of us.  


While we are gracious and humble in victory, we are also courteous and polite when we occupy the “First Looser” position or worse.  Congratulations are given to the winners since we all realize we are only competing with ourselves.


Last edited by CrankyThunder on 10/17/2020, 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : formatting changes to make post more readable)
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Post by CrankyThunder on 10/17/2020, 1:50 pm

feel free to add any that I have overlooked
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Post by CR10X on 10/17/2020, 2:02 pm

You write on a score card with a smudged #2 pencil that I can't read and its the other guy that could get mis-scored. You try to write on a waterlogged score card with a smudged #2 pencil and again, its the other guy that might not even get scores entered because it can't be read. (You know I'll always try to figure out the scores, no matter how bad the math, legibility, or writing; but I'll say bad words while I'm doing it Wink

Please use a pen, preferably waterproof and you won't PO the person that's entering the scores. Very Happy

Use whatever you can to get the totals right, especially if you failed basic math, have CRS or whatever; again so you won't PO the person that's entering the scores.
The real rule is that if you try hard to help the stat office person, they'll try even harder to help you.   The Rulez. 2935285009

CR

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Post by mikemyers on 10/17/2020, 4:50 pm

You bring enough extra "stuff" and "tools" so that if anyone needs something, you're there to help out.
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Post by straybrit on 10/17/2020, 6:03 pm

You will willingly overload the aforementioned vehicle to the point of suspension failure to either

a) Transport guns and ammo for shooters who have to fly to/from an event due to the unfortunate circumstance of having to earn a living

b) Return the plunder from Commercial Row to your admiring fellow shooters who were too wimpish to attend.

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Post by LenV on 10/17/2020, 6:41 pm

It is perfectly acceptable to pass on bullseye pistols to sons or daughter's before you croak but they must come shooting with you to earn them.

Afore mentioned sons or daughter's must also be willing to run down range and change targets/score for you. (Yes, she is reading this over my shoulder)
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Post by john bickar on 10/17/2020, 6:41 pm

Good start.

Gotta agree with Cecil. "The Stat Office loves good penmanship". Camp Perry grease pencils are preferred in inclement weather.

I'll let you fight with Doc Young about stickers on guns.

And I'll refer you to a dictionary regarding the difference between "loosing" and "losing". Protip: they mean different things.

I'd also add:

"You shall lend a gun and ammo to anyone, anyone who is willing to shoot a leg match."

"Any disagreement between shooter and scorer that lasts more than 15 seconds shall end with 'put a dollar on it!'" and be adjudicated by the referee. If the match does not have a referee, the 'If You Want a Ten, Shoot a Ten' law shall apply."


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Post by Jon Eulette on 10/17/2020, 6:48 pm

john bickar wrote:
"Any disagreement between shooter and scorer that lasts more than 15 seconds shall end with 'put a dollar on it!'" and be adjudicated by the referee. If the match does not have a referee, the 'If You Want a Ten, Shoot a Ten' law shall apply."


AMEN

Jon
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Post by CR10X on 10/18/2020, 8:36 am

Here's my opinion on scoring from "So You Wanna Shoot Bullseye": 

The most important thing you will do at a match is to follow the safety rules; the second most important thing (in my opinion) is not shooting; but your official duty to score another competitor.  You will be acting as a match official when you are scoring others, so you need to do your best, just like you would like to be treated.  I’ve never ever, ever seen a shooter complain about teaching a new shooter how to score, but some knowledge and basic understanding always helps.
 

Don’t be surprised if you wind up scoring some Master or High Master on your very first match. Lots of match directors will put a new shooter between two experienced ones for training and safety reasons.  I’ve never seen anyone get upset when teaching someone how to score at a match (at least they didn’t with me); so don’t worry about it.  But your efforts to learn will be very much appreciated by your fellow shooters. So when training; be sure to put in some time scoring yourself with the overlays and rulebook.  You’ll be ahead of the game when you get to the match. (To answer your first question about scoring; Yes, the outline of the hole on the overlay or leaded edge of the bullet hole only has to touch the scoring ring to get that value.) 
 
This is for Lara (She Can Teach You a Thing or Two About Scoring)
 
When competing and scoring; score what you see, be fair and then move on, both as scorer and competitor.  Score the other person’s target as you would your own, and do it first before looking at your target (for your 10th shot, that double or whatever). If you’re standing in front of your target, you’re in the way of the person that should be trying to score it anyway and holding up the process. Learn how to use the overlays to score the shot and recreate the scoring rings, if necessary. Learn to count the holes as you're walking up to the target so you'll know if all 10 are there or if you're going to need to look for doubles, etc. It is customary to write the score in the upper right corner of the repair center at most matches.  That way the shooter can see the score and if he doesn’t agree, he can ask for shots to be “plugged” or checked or he can just challenge the score. And make sure the numbers are legible on the score sheet because it’s not your score and the stat office people need all the help they can get.
 
If you read the rulebook, you know what to do if you don’t agree with the scorer.  (And sometimes, you may know more than he does about your options if you have read it.) It takes some time to learn how to score refire targets, especially with missing shots, but most of the time there will be someone nearby or the match director / range officer will help (sometimes). But sometimes they don't know either so back to my suggestion that you actually read the rule book and understand the process).   By the way, although a lot of shooters leave the staplers, score cards and centers downrange after scoring; I would suggest not getting into the habit.  You can’t do it at a lot of major matches or Perry, so why get into a habit you have to change and it actually costs you time (see below).

If you want the rest of my opinion on how to save time scoring and repairing; just ask.

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Post by bruce martindale on 10/18/2020, 8:43 am

"Must be present to win"

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Post by Sa-tevp on 10/18/2020, 10:25 am

john bickar wrote:
"You shall lend a gun and ammo to anyone, anyone who is willing to shoot a leg match."

Sometimes it is easier to add UP the score than subtract down the lost points.
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Post by sbtzc on 10/18/2020, 11:32 am

Wait patiently and quietly while your target is being scored and the score is calculated.

Do not badger the scorer while he/she is trying to concentrate.

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Post by farmboy on 10/18/2020, 1:40 pm

sbtzc wrote:Wait patiently and quietly while your target is being scored and the score is calculated.

Do not badger the scorer while he/she is trying to concentrate.

These are the guys that counted their score through their scope before walking down range and then as soon as you square you shoulders in front of their target they tell you the score and say right?.  I had one once that would tell me he had a couple doubles  while walking down range to score and then argue when none of his shots (that were on paper) were closer than 6-8 inches lol!
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Post by CR10X on 10/18/2020, 2:34 pm

Yep, it doesn't matter where the shooter thinks the double is.  The scorer will make a decision for free. The shooter doesn't decide anything about the score except if they want to challenge the score or not. 

[About the only other decision the shooter gets to make concerning accepting a score is in the case of excessive hits where he can decide to take the lowest 10 hits for score or request a refire and take the new score which cannot exceed score of the highest 10 hits on the original target.]  

If the shooter decides to challenge, it will cost to get a final decision from the jury or referee unless the shooter is correct.  And don't be surprised if the jury or referee scores the whole target, not just the shot the shooter questioned. (Yes, I've see it happen at Perry.) 

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Post by chiz1180 on 10/18/2020, 3:59 pm

CR10X wrote:Yep, it doesn't matter where the shooter thinks the double is.  The scorer will make a decision for free. The shooter doesn't decide anything about the score except if they want to challenge the score or not. 

[About the only other decision the shooter gets to make concerning accepting a score is in the case of excessive hits where he can decide to take the lowest 10 hits for score or request a refire and take the new score which cannot exceed score of the highest 10 hits on the original target.]  

If the shooter decides to challenge, it will cost to get a final decision from the jury or referee unless the shooter is correct.  And don't be surprised if the jury or referee scores the whole target, not just the shot the shooter questioned. (Yes, I've see it happen at Perry.) 

CR
It was always my understanding that if you challenged a target, the whole target was to be rescored and the shooter should not make any comment to whoever is rescoring what they think the score should be (often not being present when the target is rescored). 

On several occasions I have asked my target to be rescored if the score was too high. typically a rapid fire target with 9 hits.

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Post by dpelletier on 10/18/2020, 4:04 pm

CR10X wrote:
[... request a refire and take the new score which cannot exceed score of the highest 10 hits on the original target...]  


I did not know that.

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Post by Dcforman on 10/18/2020, 5:44 pm

Though it may not be evident to the new shooter, getting stuck between two master shooters on the line in a 2700 is actually pretty awesome, if you're willing to listen and ask questions.

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Post by javaduke on 10/18/2020, 6:34 pm

Dcforman wrote:Though it may not be evident to the new shooter, getting stuck between two master shooters on the line in a 2700 is actually pretty awesome, if you're willing to listen and ask questions.
The added benefit is that you won't have to do hard math when scoring the master or high master to your left. But the other master will have to think hard when scoring you...Sorry...

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Post by TonyH on 10/18/2020, 6:38 pm

Aren’t rulez meant to be brokenz?lol!
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Post by robert84010 on 10/18/2020, 7:05 pm

Since there are people here that have been here for years and still not shot a match..


Please, please, please do not go to Camp Perry to shoot the P100, NTI without shooting a local match, or two, and learning how to score and some of the other things highlighted above. The CMP matches are open squadding and a person could be next to one of the few capable of placing or even winning the P100 or NTI and they shouldn't have to teach a person how to score their target. Also if its your first trip to Perry don't argue about how to score a target when it is obvious you don't know how.

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Post by john bickar on 10/18/2020, 9:02 pm

javaduke wrote:
Dcforman wrote:Though it may not be evident to the new shooter, getting stuck between two master shooters on the line in a 2700 is actually pretty awesome, if you're willing to listen and ask questions.
The added benefit is that you won't have to do hard math when scoring the master or high master to your left. But the other master will have to think hard when scoring you...Sorry...
Speaking as a HM, I'm fine with the extra arithmetic.
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Post by john bickar on 10/18/2020, 9:10 pm

robert84010 wrote:Since there are people here that have been here for years and still not shot a match..


Please, please, please do not go to Camp Perry to shoot the P100, NTI without shooting a local match, or two, and learning how to score and some of the other things highlighted above. The CMP matches are open squadding and a person could be next to one of the few capable of placing or even winning the P100 or NTI and they shouldn't have to teach a person how to score their target. Also if its your first trip to Perry don't argue about how to score a target when it is obvious you don't know how.

Agreed; please shoot some local matches before going to Nationals.

I think it was Cecil who pointed out upthread the responsibility that shooters have as scorekeepers. Going from bullseye and international pistol (where scorekeeping is completely out of the hands of competitors) to highpower rifle, the thing that terrified me (and TBH still does) was how much responsibility you have for your fellow shooter's score in HP.

For bullseye, I'll emphasize that you are a match official, and should treat your scoring duties as such.
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Post by James Hensler on 10/19/2020, 11:24 am

I guess I am not a Bullseye Shooter because I prefer to hit the X Ring with a 32ACP! Who knew?
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Post by oldsalt444 on 10/19/2020, 11:36 am

Is the popcorn ready yet?
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Post by Jon Eulette on 10/19/2020, 11:42 am

James Hensler wrote:I guess I am not a Bullseye Shooter because I prefer to hit the X Ring with a 32ACP! Who knew?
You lost me James?
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