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Best Quality Targets & Where to Buy Them?

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Vinkemulder
SonOfSwede
bullseye67
bruce martindale
mikemargolis
Wobbley
messenger
Olde Pilot
joem5636
TonyH
Zippy
straybrit
Oleg G
gwhite
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Post by gwhite 11/1/2020, 6:20 pm

I help coach a collegiate pistol team.  We have been using Kruger targets for many years, imported from Germany.  Their paper is a little heavier & stiffer than most US target brands, and they produce cleaner holes that are easier to score.   The difference is most noticeable for air pistol targets, but the .22 targets are also nicer.

Unfortunately, it appears that Kruger is getting out of the US target business.   Although everything is still shut down due to COVID, I wanted to re-stock before things get rolling again.

The two biggest manufacturers I know of are American Target & National Target companies.  The club I shoot at uses American Targets, and they are actually better quality than I remember from years past.  I have some National brand targets at home, and they seem to be very slightly thinner, softer paper.  I haven't investigated  pricing, but based on that, I'm tempted to buy from American.  

Kruger's US dealer used to give us a discount, partly because it was for a school program, and partly because we would often buy about $500 worth of targets a year.   

So, two questions:

1)  Whose targets do you prefer & why?

2)  Who is a good outfit to deal with for buying targets?  

Thanks!

gwhite

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Post by Oleg G 11/1/2020, 6:43 pm

I bought Kruger targets this year and did not have an inkling that they were closing up shop.

Here is the link to the kruger USA store, seems to be alive and well...

https://www.kruger-us-targets.com/index.php/
Oleg G
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Post by gwhite 11/1/2020, 7:06 pm

My understanding is that Kruger in Germany is ceasing printing the US targets, so whatever Kruger USA has in stock is it.  The collegiate competition program is International style, and they have been out of B-33 50 foot Standard/Sport-Rapid targets for at least 6 months.

I swapped emails with both Kruger USA and Germany, and it wasn't super clear what is going.  I suspect Kruger is either focusing strictly on metric ISSF targets, or it may be with the advent of electronic targets that they are getting out of the target printing business altogether.

gwhite

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Post by straybrit 11/1/2020, 8:04 pm

Back when I was running the program at ARC I used American Target. Still buy from them now. If you have a special requirement phone them up and they'll generally do what they can for you (in my case it was getting some special training targets for a class I was running).

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Post by gwhite 11/1/2020, 8:58 pm

I just did a quick check on the prices of B-33' s from National & American.  National wants $21 for 100, and American wants $33 for 250.  I was really surprised the price difference was that large.

That pretty much seals it.  It looks like American only sells to dealers, so I'll need to find a retail source, preferably not too far from New England.  Kruger USA is in Oregon, and the shipping charges to get them back across the country used to be painful.

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Post by Zippy 11/2/2020, 4:31 am

You can order direct from American target, they only take phone orders but are easy to deal with. One Item of note, they only ship the quantities listed on their website e.g. 250, 500, 1000. I have an order coming for multiple sets of B-2 & B-3 in 250 bundles.

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Post by Guest 11/2/2020, 4:44 am

Have you tried Speedwell Targets?

They're located in Frenchtown, NJ.

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Post by TonyH 11/2/2020, 5:01 am

straybrit wrote:Back when I was running the program at ARC I used American Target. Still buy from them now. If you have a special requirement phone them up and they'll generally do what they can for you (in my case it was getting some special training targets for a class I was running).
We buy from American Target as well. Prices are pretty good and they will discount the shipping. Decent quality paper and the printing is clear & sharp. Like others have said, need to call and talk to them directly and they will sell to private parties and clubs, not just dealers.
TonyH
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Post by joem5636 11/2/2020, 5:44 am

National switched stock maybe 20 years ago for air pistol targets. The new stock did not punch clean holes -- perhaps that has been fixed now? They do have water-resistant Bullseye targets on heavier stock; if that is available for air pistol, it would be far superior.

National offers club and volume discounts. Shipping has been quick and well-packaged. If you are near Frederick, MD, you can pick up at the plant.

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Post by gwhite 11/2/2020, 8:16 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:Have you tried Speedwell Targets?

They're located in Frenchtown, NJ.
Using the B-33's we need as a gauge, they are WAY more expensive.  American wants $33 for 250, Speedwell wants $97.50 for 500.

I only recall running across Speedwell targets a few times in the past, and I was never impressed with the quality of the paper.  They may be better by now, but I won't pay a 50% premium for 500 to find out.

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Post by gwhite 11/2/2020, 8:19 am

TonyH wrote:
straybrit wrote:Back when I was running the program at ARC I used American Target. Still buy from them now. If you have a special requirement phone them up and they'll generally do what they can for you (in my case it was getting some special training targets for a class I was running).
We buy from American Target as well. Prices are pretty good and they will discount the shipping. Decent quality paper and the printing is clear & sharp. Like others have said, need to call and talk to them directly and they will sell to private parties and clubs, not just dealers.
I'll contact them & see what they say.  Either I can deal direct, or they can point me to the nearest retail vendor.

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Post by gwhite 11/2/2020, 10:37 am

They got back to me very quickly, and I can buy direct, no problem.  Thanks for all the help!  

I'm going to toss in a pack of their air pistol targets as well, just to see how they behave.  Those are the tricky ones to get right.  Supposedly the Europeans use a special short fiber paper to get the clean holes.  

I looked real quickly for other options, and it's not clear Edelmann is still in the target business either.  All I could find was out of date price lists.  That leaves Cibles in Canada for high quality air pistol targets.

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Post by Olde Pilot 11/2/2020, 10:51 am

pistoleer.com

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Post by messenger 11/2/2020, 11:05 am

I've always bought American Target Co. Be sure to get tag board paper. Discount after 5000.

Bill
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Post by TonyH 11/2/2020, 11:11 am

gwhite wrote:They got back to me very quickly, and I can buy direct, no problem.  Thanks for all the help!  

I'm going to toss in a pack of their air pistol targets as well, just to see how they behave.  Those are the tricky ones to get right.  Supposedly the Europeans use a special short fiber paper to get the clean holes.  

I looked real quickly for other options, and it's not clear Edelmann is still in the target business either.  All I could find was out of date price lists.  That leaves Cibles in Canada for high quality air pistol targets.
Air Pistol targets will not cut completely clean holes, but if you use an already shot target as a backer, you will get cleaner holes without tearing.
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Post by gwhite 11/2/2020, 11:16 am

Olde Pilot wrote:pistoleer.com
I've used them for my own targets in the past.  Again, a quick price comparison on B-33's:  Pistoleer wants $16.48 for 100, and American is asking $33 for $250.  American Target also pays a portion of the shipping costs.

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Post by Wobbley 11/2/2020, 11:18 am

You could also contact Orion Target systems and see whet they have.


http://www.orionscoringsystem.com/orion/TargetList.aspx
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Post by gwhite 11/2/2020, 11:46 am

We actually have a good supply of Orion targets.  They are standard ISSF size, but my recollection as that  they charged a premium for the barcodes required for their automatic scoring system.  We borrow the Rifle Team's electronic target system for air gun matches now, so we don't use the Orion system any more.

We used to buy the NRA B40/1 air pistol targets from Kruger because the paper is larger than the ISSF targets.   We only use paper targets for practice now, and the bigger paper is better for training the new shooters...  We'll use up the Orion's for the better shooters over time, but we may still want to use the NRA style targets for the newbies.  The paper quality isn't a huge deal for practice as long as the targets don't tear too badly.

As an aside, the really good shooters use "centers" for air pistol.  We bought a whole bunch of 5-bull strips a number of years ago from Kruger in Germany.  They can be cut up into "centers".  With a couple slots cut in a used target, you can slip them in place, held by the corners.  That cuts our air gun target costs substantially.

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Post by mikemargolis 11/9/2020, 7:42 am

I just switched to American Target.

VERY happy with their quality.

I buy 500B2 and 1000B3 for personal use, and they treat me like a king.

Have bought from US and CHL in the past.

US printing was kind of grey and not black.

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Post by bruce martindale 11/9/2020, 1:23 pm

Euro targets have clay in the paper to make them brittle while it seems that our targets are printed on toilet tissue!

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Post by Guest 11/9/2020, 3:09 pm

bruce martindale wrote:Euro targets have clay in the paper to make them brittle while it seems that our targets are printed on toilet tissue!
 
Now you tell is. That information would have served us well earlier this year.

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Post by bullseye67 12/16/2020, 12:50 pm

Good afternoon,
I am in charge of the targets for our club. I have had zero issues with Cibles’s targets. They are NRA or if it is ISSF they are also stamped accordingly.
The air pistol targets cut perfect holes. We also use repair centres for air targets. Most of us that shoot air rifle use the same backer target with a rifle repair Center. I know Cibles has brought targets from Canada to US matches. I did try to place an order from Kruger USA but when all was said and done it was less to order from Cibles. As far as I know all of the paper they use for targets is the heavier short fibre that makes perfect holes. Even the rifle targets that are 200M/300M make nice easy to score holes.

Cibles.ca and they also have a E-store.

Merry Christmas 🎄 and Happy New Year!!!

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Post by bruce martindale 12/16/2020, 1:10 pm

Our regional clubs banded together and bought a full tractor trailer of paper targets. That's the way to save significantly.

Onesy twosie orders cost a premium

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Post by bullseye67 12/16/2020, 3:35 pm

Just a quick follow up to my earlier post.

Just to clarify I was in Arizona and planning to drive by Kruger targets and drive back with several hundreds of pounds in targets.

Yes. I have been ordering everything in large quantities. When we order 22LR we get it is 20 case pallets. The shipping is significantly lower. The same with targets. The last order was 200 pounds again maximum for a pallet.
In the online shipping world we live in today. Shipping cost are the easiest way to save $$$$.

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Post by gwhite 12/16/2020, 4:05 pm

bullseye67 wrote:Good afternoon,
I am in charge of the targets for our club. I have had zero issues with Cibles’s targets. They are NRA or if it is ISSF they are also stamped accordingly.
The air pistol targets cut perfect holes. We also use repair centres for air targets. Most of us that shoot air rifle use the same backer target with a rifle repair Center. I know Cibles has brought targets from Canada to US matches. I did try to place an order from Kruger USA but when all was said and done it was less to order from Cibles. As far as I know all of the paper they use for targets is the heavier short fibre that makes perfect holes. Even the rifle targets that are 200M/300M make nice easy to score holes.

Cibles.ca and they also have a E-store.

Merry Christmas 🎄 and Happy New Year!!!
I checked their E-store.  The problem is that they don't list International style targets for US range distances.   The vast majority of indoor ranges in the US are only 50 feet.

We used to be able to get Kruger Free Pistol and Standard/Sport pistol targets for 50 feet, for example.
 
I'm sure Cibles could make them, but it's not clear how economical they would be.

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