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Post by thessler on 11/3/2020, 4:36 am

Hi
I just bought a 22 conversion and have some simple questions. 
When set up on the 45 frame,  what trigger weight is generally used ?  Is it smart to make it  3.5 lbs that way when you shoot the 45 the trigger weight is always the same or is that a disadvantage and drop it down to  two lbs? 
When shooting a match do you swap out your conversion kit and put the 45 parts on for the center fire portion or just grab another gun ? These are probably obvious questions to some but I'm just trying to find my way. 
Thanks , Tom

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Post by Dcforman on 11/3/2020, 5:51 am

Hey Tom!

You just asked 3 questions with no good answer!  lol!

Seriously though, people have a lot of opinions about all three, but you need to figure out what is right for you. I've shot dedicated lowers for the most part, but I recently shot a match where I swapped uppers on the line. Kind of nice having the exact same trigger all the way through a match. But also nice having a 2# trigger for 22! 

Figure out what works for you. If the trigger on your 45 is really nice, I say go for it! Just make sure the conversion will run reliably on that lower, and make sure you have a full length guiderod on the 45 upper. Makes swapping a lot easier.

Dave

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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 11/3/2020, 6:19 am

The most important thing is making sure your conversion runs 100% on the lower you're thinking about swapping back and forth with.  Then trigger can come into play.
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Post by CR10X on 11/3/2020, 6:41 am

Listen to KC.  Make sure the conversion runs reliably first.  

Just remember the more you deviate from the "standard" or expected mainspring weight and trigger set up, the more touchy (reliability issues) a conversion can become.  So I tend to recommend getting it to work reliably with the 3.5 trigger first, then it's much easier to identify issues if you start moving to lower trigger weight. 

In addition, another issue is how firmly the magazine is held in place and if it rubs or touches the underside of the slide when feeding.  Anything that absorbs energy from the loading cycle will cause you issues.   Slide cycling too fast or too slow can cause issues and its important to understand which one if happening to get to the solution if you have issues.

Personally, I run +/- 3.5 lbs for conversions and the .45 is a ounce or 2 higher (Nothing like having your gun not make the weight on the line to really get the adrenaline flowing at Perry.)

CR

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Post by Oleg G on 11/3/2020, 6:49 am

Aside from reliability, as KC and Cecil said, the next most important thing is your goals.

If your ambition is to win matches, then you have to fight for every possible point and use every possible advantage. In that case, use a dedicated lower for the conversion with a 2 lbs trigger and a separate .45 pistol.

If your learning goal is to master your .45 pistol and learn to operate its trigger to the best of your ability, then use the same frame, with a 3.5 lbs trigger for the .22, CF and .45 portions of the match. You can dry fire at home with your .45 upper, you can train at the range with both .22 and .45 ammo and you will shoot in the match exactly as you train. If you choose this route, I would recommend installing a full-length guide rod in your .45 slide for the sole purpose of easily swapping the .45 slide with the conversion during matches and training.

This is just my opinion, take it for what it is.

Regards,
Oleg.
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Post by thessler on 11/3/2020, 4:55 pm

Thanks for the replys. 
I just ordered the guide rod, will keep at it.
Thanks , Tom

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Post by CR10X on 11/4/2020, 5:55 am

I do have a slightly different opinion about shooting .22 conversions for matches (scoring and competition wise). This should probably be in the Fundamentals section but it is directly related to the OP's question. 

For most of us, if we are only interested in winning the .22 match (or getting the most points there) then shoot 2 lbs or so for the conversion.  But there are a lot of Experts (and even some Sharpshooters) out there that shoot Master and HM .22 scores, but don't win the match or even the class.  And I think that comes from 2 things.  Lack of really good trigger operation / technique (lower trigger weights can hide issues) and mental outlook that affects performance (expectation).  If one mentally thinks a 2 lb trigger is a "benefit" then mentally the heavier trigger would probably be thought of as a obstacle or something to be overcome (even unconsciously). 

So if our .22 scores are more than 5 or 10 points higher (per 900) than CF and .45, then we might want to take note of what this indicates.  Setting up a .22 conversion with 3.5 lb trigger, using same grip and generally same gun feel / weight is the best benefit of using a conversion. So why not use it?  

We are going to generally shoot 2/3 of the match with a 3.5 lb trigger (most shoot .45 for CF and .45).  So why not prove to ourselves that is ain't the trigger weight that's an issue (but technique, operation, consistency issues) so we can get on with getting better shooting the whole match (and winning the whole match)?  Yes, shooting a 2 lb .22 conversion might get us some points, but most shooters can gain even more points getting better in the CF and .45 matches. 

To put it another way, I've seen lots of shooters that shoot great .22 scores and not so good centerfire / .45 scores.  But I've never seen shooters that shoot great CF / .45 scores that shoot bad or even "average" .22 scores. (Matches (and classes) are generally won during the CF / .45 Aggs.) 

[Added:  When the 45 / CF scores get close to the .22 scores, then we might get a few more points back with a lighter .22 trigger.  BUT don't lose the experience or get sloppy because it's lighter, just continue to try and increase the X count.  Any drop off in the CF / .45 scores and it's back to the basics.  Point is on this one; when we reach a plateau, its time to look at everything from the ground up again. Until old age just nibbles it away Smile ]

CR


Last edited by CR10X on 11/4/2020, 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Outthere on 11/4/2020, 7:41 am

CR10X wrote:I do have a slightly different opinion about shooting .22 conversions for matches (scoring and competition wise). This should probably be in the Fundamentals section but it is directly related to the OP's question. 

For most of us, if we are only interested in winning the .22 match (or getting the most points there) then shoot 2 lbs or so for the conversion.  But there are a lot of Experts (and even some Sharpshooters) out there that shoot Master and HM .22 scores, but don't win the match or even the class.  And I think that comes from 2 things.  Lack of really good trigger operation / technique (lower trigger weights can hide issues) and mental outlook that affects performance (expectation).  If one mentally thinks a 2 lb trigger is a "benefit" then mentally the heavier trigger would probably be thought of as a obstacle or something to be overcome (even unconsciously). 

So if our .22 scores are more than 5 or 10 points higher (per 900) than CF and .45, then we might want to take note of what this indicates.  Setting up a .22 conversion with 3.5 lb trigger, using same grip and generally same gun feel / weight is the best benefit of using a conversion. So why not use it?  

We are going to generally shoot 2/3 of the match with a 3.5 lb trigger (most shoot .45 for CF and .45).  So why not prove to ourselves that is ain't the trigger weight that's an issue (but technique, operation, consistency issues) so we can get on with getting better shooting the whole match (and winning the whole match)?  Yes, shooting a 2 lb .22 conversion might get us some points, but most shooters can gain even more points getting better in the CF and .45 matches. 

To put it another way, I've seen lots of shooters that shoot great .22 scores and not so good centerfire / .45 scores.  But I've never seen shooters that shoot great CF / .45 scores that shoot bad or even "average" .22 scores. (Matches (and classes) are generally won during the CF / .45 Aggs.) 

CR
I have my Marvels set up exactly like my CF and 45 with a 3-1/2# trigger. I also have a Marvel with a 4# trigger to simulate my CMP gun. I even have my Air Pistol set at 3-1/2#. 

My highest score was with the .45.
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Post by Jack H on 11/4/2020, 11:17 am

Wouldn't the same (CR) thing apply to using a Euro gun and 45?
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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 11/5/2020, 7:31 am

Jack H wrote:Wouldn't the same (CR) thing apply to using a Euro gun and 45?
No because of different grip angles.
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Post by Steve B on 11/5/2020, 6:14 pm

Jack H wrote:Wouldn't the same (CR) thing apply to using a Euro gun and 45?

Depends on the euro.  My best outdoor season I averaged 294 with my 208S, that trigger was just over 3 1/4 lbs.  The Pardini, Benelli and such might be totally different though.

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