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Considering a Pardini .22 for BE

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zanemoseley
TonyH
C7@71
ssauer2004
Colt711
Jon Eulette
bmize1
shooterer
Ray Dash
SingleActionAndrew
James Hensler
mikemargolis
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james r chapman
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Post by xman 10/6/2021, 7:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

After watching the Rapid fire 25M juniors in Lima, seeing the zero recoil of the Pardini.

What do I need to know about the the line up of Pardini 22s? Barrels?, ammo finicky? Dot sites? mounts, etc.

The full report please. I only shoot .22 for the full 2700 and EIC .22.

I would finance it by liquidation of my SW M41 with OEM 5.5 barrel and Clark 5.5 STC barrel with bridge for Vortex RD2 sight with 4 OEM mags

Also liquidation of Browning Buckmark Field Model with full length rail with 4 mags

Also liquidation of my Colt Hbar Sporter .223 with handle model with NM front and rear sights and at least 10 20rd Colt mags.

Yes it smacks of trying to buy points .. guilty.
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Post by ssauer2004 10/10/2021, 7:43 am

james r chapman wrote:
ssauer2004 wrote:Why is this thread in the Commercial Row Section?
Where would you like it to go to.
The Equipment Section?
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Post by SingleActionAndrew 10/10/2021, 8:38 am

xman wrote:So as I understand it, I will need a mount with a slot to fit the cross screw in order to fit my Vortex Crossfire. 
Looking on ebay [...]

I could get the Pardini top drilled and tapped and use the longer of the two mounts (2 screws) and fit my Vortex to it.

All of this is conjecture at this point.

Opinions? Thoughts?

I believe both James Chapman and bmize1 have endeavored to demonstrate that there is already a solution for you, complete with pictures in this thread

https://kcskustomcreations.com/product/kodiak-machine-pardini-mount/
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Post by C7@71 10/10/2021, 8:49 am

chiz1180 wrote:Alibi's are directly related to how well someone takes care of their equipment. I have not had a single gun related alibi in my conversion in the last two years, only one that was ammo related in regards the priming compound. Any 22 that is properly maintained will function. I have seen more double alibi's with a pardini than I have ever experienced with a conversion. Does that make one better than the other, nope not at all. Both are mechanical objects that are prone to wear and potential malfunction. 

How many 880's have been shot with a Pardini in matches this year? If it is clearly a superior gun for the sport no differential should be present between a Pardini and other makes in premiere scores. 

To be blunt, recommending that someone spends an exorbitant amount of money on any gun to "improve their score" is foolish. The score is determined by the shooter, not the gun.
Comments from a “marksman” that has 76 YO eyes and wanted to be a BE shooter 5 years ago.  I have a Master Coach and watch a lot of great and wanting to be great BE shooters and try to learn and improve. Your comment about reliability and ammo and alibis prompted me to add my real world experience.  I have probably sent 15 K or more down range since I got serious.

Mechanical.  Yes, good maintenance will prevail…. But sometimes an equipment tuneup or perhaps “proper installation” is necessary.  have a friend that got frustrated with his jams or alibis.  He only shoots 22LR. The guns were conversions.  One was a Marvel on an Accurex (memory/spelling?) frame and the other a Factory Sig conversion,  Both guns had not been shot much and I think the Sig was purchased new.  He fiddled and fumed and never could eliminate the jams and was reluctant to have a BE recommended gunsmith analyze and correct.  He was shooting the middle to top tier CCI target ammo and the go to CCI SV practice ammo made no difference.  He purchased a Pardini and then Pardini offered a discount to owners and he bought another one.  He is methodical in his process and meticulous in his approach.  I have watched him practice and he has improved and his confidence in his guns has improved.  His scores are better, but NOT a magical 100 or so (900 March) as he had hoped.  He is retired….

Pardini was NOT the magic bullet that he expected.  I do agree that proper maintenance is necessary, but with most high quality guns such as the Buck Marks, Marks, Victory’s, M41, etc, one does not need to meticulously field strip and clean every 100 rounds.  I pushed my M41 and it finally stove piped around 500 rounds with CCI SV.  My Browning and Mark II are more forgiving.  I do clean every 200-300 rounds…. Cleaning excessively is not detrimental and does eliminate one variable.  

Ammo, as you pointed out, is more of a culprit than dirty equipment.  I put maybe 5K CCI SV through my Buck Mark Field Target.  CCI changed the packaging and the newer boxes started to have FTE or Failure to Feed.  It was probably 5-8%.  That drove me crazy and my confidence fell.  I researched and tried the ammo in my Ruger….and it failed there….not as much, but more than it should.  I analyzed the ammo…and as an engineer and ex Maintenance Manager, I have average to a little better forensic skills to figure out what failed and why.  I finally realized that the newer CCI SV had a different “feel” as to lubrication.  I got my wife and a shooting buddy to do a blind tear of the old and new and they could tell the difference.  Contacted CCI.  They responded and I shipped 5 boxes of the new in. They evaluated and said that there were some lubrication inconsistency and replaced the 8K that I had and I have not had a failure, save the one “dirty” issue in the M41. I DO know, now. That the Buck Mark has a lighter ignition strike and that the HP plinker rounds that will not fire in my Buck Mark will always work in my Ruger and I do no shoot anything but the CCI SV in the M41.

So….my conclusions….and comments from a very successful Master who has also coached many beginning BE shooters and some are VERY successful…. A Pardini will, in the hands of a good shooter, add points.  The informal BE league is shooting the 25 yard format with a B8 for RF and TF and the B16 for SF.
His prized 5 year pupil, who shoots a Pardini, will average 850 or so.  Another aspiring pupil broke 800 about 18 months ago and now is in the 825 range. BUT, she is shooting a stock SW Victory with a good optic.  He has encouraged her to upgrade and commented that if she went to a M41, it would add maybe 20 points.

My 2 Pardini shooting buddy has improved maybe 40 points, but is in the 725 range.  He practices for at least 2 hours daily.  He was shooting at the same level as another, much younger shooter.  That shooter has added 75 plus points by improving his process and does not get to range but maybe once a week. Eyes and age and such are in his favor and he shoots a slightly moded, I think, Ruger.  If he had a Pardini or a M41, I think he would easily break 800 or be in the 825 range.

I know that either of my two standard guns, the Buck Mark or the Ruger MK II are reliable and I can not even begin to outshoot them,  I get about 5% better scores with the M41 and doubt that a Pardini would help….so I stay with what I have.  Our Master coach says that he got his Master with a slightly moded Ruger.  He then upgraded to a M41 and won a lot of matches.  His rationale, other than some “intangibles” for adding in 2 Pardinis was that he could improve his trigger control and as he and his body and eyes aged, that kept him “equal”.  He is around 60 and still gets trophies at Camp Perry….

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Post by TonyH 10/10/2021, 9:01 am

I'm still trying to figure out what is for sale in this thread and what the asking price is.....What a Face
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Post by zanemoseley 10/10/2021, 2:13 pm

Shooting an 850 in 22 ain't special by a long shot. Last year I shot a couple full matches with my 208S only and averaged 97.1% over a 2700, best score was an 879. The AMU guys will still run circles around me with their 208S's.

Most any quality 22 will be accurate enough. Gotta find something you like the trigger, grip angle, balance and is 100% reliable. For me I found a good deal on a like new 208S, it feels and balances close to a 1911 and has a sweet trigger and runs like a Swiss watch, it will never be sold. Had an older all steel GSP but didn't like the balance and the trigger was ehhh... Got a new MG2 but haven't got to shoot much, initial shooting leads me to think I far prefer the 208S trigger. Never got to really shoot a Pardini, I'm not a fan of their rail options and heard mixed reviews on the triggers, also not sure I would like the balance. I like a more neutral balance.

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Post by toddcfii 10/10/2021, 2:17 pm

I would feel pretty special with an 850! 😉
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Post by James Hensler 10/10/2021, 3:56 pm

Considering a Pardini .22 for BE - Page 3 Ac31d710  
This it how it looks. I shot like this for a season. Scores was the same. The reason I put the dot back on the frame is I hated the way this looked
bmize1 wrote:This was the only pic I could find of the shot standard rail at the muzzle.
I’m on vacation, but can get a better pick later in the week if you need it 

Considering a Pardini .22 for BE - Page 3 Fe3c1610
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Post by C7@71 10/10/2021, 5:13 pm

toddcfii wrote:I would feel pretty special with an 850!  😉
Me TOO.  The only downside would be telling my “MASTER” coach and having the EMS’ standing by in case he went into cardiac arrest…..LOL…

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Post by hengehold 10/12/2021, 9:38 pm

What about mounting a reflex/RMR style red dot sight on it instead of a full bodied scope?

Seems like the RMR has much less weight so it could be added to the rail on the barrel and not throw the balance off too much.

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Post by C7@71 10/13/2021, 8:55 am

All possibilities for a Pardini or any target Pistol.  My BE Master coach prefers the 30mm standard 4MOA Ultradot.  It has very little is any parallex issues and will withstand the pounding of a 45 ACP. That is his recommendation for beginning shooters for accuracy as well as cost….or “value added”.

I rarely see reflex sights used by BE shooters….although a friend has one on his Pardini.  But, he has not made the expected score increases. The RMR air the shape of the viewing field is set up more for action shooting as in an LEO.  My coach trained a first response amateur squad for an organization that wanted volunteer, but competent in house security,  His weapon was a Glock with a DeltaPoint.  I had a SW Performance Center M&P.  That gun was specifically designed to accomonly three brands/models.  RMR, Original DeltaPoint and one other. These would cowitness with the CW raised sights. I never got the hang of “precision” centering the dot. This was a $450 sight, which was the best price one could find. The problem for me and a very proficient shooting buddy was that getting the dot “centered” across the non rectangular field of view was difficult.

I have many optics of different brands on a variety of handguns. I have an upper end Aimpoint on a CZ Shoadow 2.  It is parallax free and accurate. However, Dave Salyer warned me that unless I shipped it back to Aimpoint and had it “beefed up” that the recoil from lower velocity loads in my SA ROO 45 would mess up the “dot”. NOW,he may have confused the red dot with a “crosshairs” style Aimpoint.  Don’t know.

If one is not of the more conventional 30mm tube clan, then the red dot would be the choice.  Primary Arms makes an SL or maybe SLX that retails in the $160 or so ballpark.  It is the choice for backup of another FOUR Master Holder shooter that does coaching for our club.  He says he has won many matches with a stock Buck Mark Field Target and this sight.  I shot his and bought the same rig.  A buddy, who was slow to convert to optics, now has two and they are his “choice” for offhand shooting.  He uses a crosshair for his Contenders at 50 or 100 yards.

Bottom line, I think that the inherent accuracy of a Pardini would not be accomplished with a Reflex sight….that would be the limiting factor.  I sold my RMR and have no desire to shoot that type of sight….but whatever works for you….is best.  There are some really finicky BE shooters that prefer the 25mm as it blocks out more background and you get the tunnel vision.  My Salyer SA ROO has that and I left it on, but I have since purchased two 30mm Ultradot and my M41 has one. I also prefer the 4 MOA as my skill set is not compatible with the 2 MOA….

Just depends….

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Post by zanemoseley 10/13/2021, 9:15 am

Reflex sights are plenty accurate, had one on my Steyr Evo for a while and shot some high scores with it but they can be difficult to find the dot and recover the dot after recoil when using one handed. This is due to the fact there is no tube to help with alignment. I've since changed to a Aimpoint micro clone on the Steyr. A tube style dot kind of acts as aperture sights where you center 2 circles being the front and rear opening of the dot which can quickly let you find the dot, a reflex panel doesn't have anything like this.

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Post by chiz1180 10/13/2021, 9:56 am

With a tube style dot, if you have a battery failure in the middle of a sustained fire string you can center the black of the target in the tube and still shoot shots that score reasonably well.

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Post by Toz35m 10/13/2021, 3:39 pm

I have shot over 880 10 times with a Pardini.  If more HM were shooting a Pardini we would see lots of 880+ scores.  Most HM could shoot an 880+ with any decent pistol.

I am a fan of the Pardini. The trigger is great when setup correctly. It has a good balance and recoil recovery.  I have a 1" ultra dot as far back as I can get it which has been a good adjustment.

Any grip like the Pardini has should be adjusted to fit the shooters hand.  Get some Quik Wood and fill in the gaps to make it fit your hand.  I have purchased a new Rink grip and it still needed work to make it fit.  If I ever wanted to have a really nice "looking" grip I would need to have someone duplicate the grip off my pistol.

For me I try to feed it ammo that tends to be on the shorter side to prevent the 2nd round in the mag from sticking.  I also know how to load the mag and check to make sure the 2nd round is pointing up so it will feed properly.  Most of the time I have an alibi now is a dud.

I think it is a fun pistol to shoot but realize it may not work for some people.
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Post by James Hensler 10/13/2021, 6:04 pm

Toz35m wrote:I have shot over 880 10 times with a Pardini.  If more HM were shooting a Pardini we would see lots of 880+ scores.  Most HM could shoot an 880+ with any decent pistol.

I am a fan of the Pardini. The trigger is great when setup correctly. It has a good balance and recoil recovery.  I have a 1" ultra dot as far back as I can get it which has been a good adjustment.

Any grip like the Pardini has should be adjusted to fit the shooters hand.  Get some Quik Wood and fill in the gaps to make it fit your hand.  I have purchased a new Rink grip and it still needed work to make it fit.  If I ever wanted to have a really nice "looking" grip I would need to have someone duplicate the grip off my pistol.

For me I try to feed it ammo that tends to be on the shorter side to prevent the 2nd round in the mag from sticking.  I also know how to load the mag and check to make sure the 2nd round is pointing up so it will feed properly.  Most of the time I have an alibi now is a dud.

I think it is a fun pistol to shoot but realize it may not work for some people.
I’ve shot 880’s also and high 860’s with the 32 but let’s keep that quiet
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Post by Toz35m 10/13/2021, 7:06 pm

Smile
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Post by chiz1180 10/13/2021, 8:25 pm

The pardini fan boys are kind of missing the point, its not the gun it is the guy shooting it that makes the score happen. A pardini is not magic gun that automatically increases your score. Telling a marksman (or any other classification for that matter) that spending $3k on a gun with the justification that it will "increase his score" is stupid.

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Post by zanemoseley 10/13/2021, 9:12 pm

chiz1180 wrote:The pardini fan boys are kind of missing the point, its not the gun it is the guy shooting it that makes the score happen. A pardini is not magic gun that automatically increases your score. Telling a marksman (or any other classification for that matter) that spending $3k on a gun with the justification that it will "increase his score" is stupid.

Somebody gets it. Plenty of great pistols out there and one size most definitely does not fit all.


Last edited by zanemoseley on 10/13/2021, 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Colt711 10/13/2021, 9:19 pm

zanemoseley wrote:
chiz1180 wrote:The pardini fan boys are kind of missing the point, its not the gun it is the guy shooting it that makes the score happen. A pardini is not magic gun that automatically increases your score. Telling a marksman (or any other classification for that matter) that spending $3k on a gun with the justification that it will "increase his score" is stupid.

Somebody gets it. Plenty of great pistols out there and one size does most definitely does not fit all. 
Best on subject Chiz!

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Post by james r chapman 10/14/2021, 5:03 am

xman wrote:After watching the Rapid fire 25M juniors in Lima, seeing the zero recoil of the Pardini.

What do I need to know about the the line up of Pardini 22s? Barrels?, ammo finicky? Dot sites? mounts, etc.

The full report please. I only shoot .22 for the full 2700 and EIC .22.

I would finance it by liquidation of my SW M41 with OEM 5.5 barrel and Clark 5.5 STC barrel with bridge for Vortex RD2 sight with 4 OEM mags

Also liquidation of Browning Buckmark Field Model with full length rail with 4 mags

Also liquidation of my Colt Hbar Sporter .223 with handle model with NM front and rear sights and at least 10 20rd Colt mags.

Yes it smacks of trying to buy points .. guilty.

I guess after 3 pages, some forget the OP’s original request.
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Post by James Hensler 10/14/2021, 6:22 am

zanemoseley wrote:
chiz1180 wrote:The pardini fan boys are kind of missing the point, its not the gun it is the guy shooting it that makes the score happen. A pardini is not magic gun that automatically increases your score. Telling a marksman (or any other classification for that matter) that spending $3k on a gun with the justification that it will "increase his score" is stupid.

Somebody gets it. Plenty of great pistols out there and one size most definitely does not fit all.

  
Now hold on a little! I also have a Smith and Wesson SW 22 with the same Match dot and a tandemcross trigger and never have cracked 850 with it!!!
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Post by zanemoseley 10/14/2021, 7:38 am

Must be the ammo  Laughing

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Post by James Hensler 10/14/2021, 7:47 am

The original poster wants a Pardini and I don’t blame him! 

To the OP 

Most Pardini haters don’t have one just remember that fact! 


I’m out
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Post by TonyH 10/14/2021, 8:24 am

Noooo! The popcorn just came out of the microwave.....
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Post by Gary Collette 10/14/2021, 10:25 am

I shoot in a monthly 1800 league.
The top monthly 22 cal. score is shot by a high master using a Marvel conversion.
This works for him so I guess I should sell off my Pardini and shoot my Nelson conversion?
Or maybe sell the Nelson and switch to Marvel?
I gotta ask him what ammo he uses too and switch if I have to.


Done looking down this rat hole.


G

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Post by james r chapman 10/14/2021, 10:45 am

Gosh, add an Advantage Arms conversion, a H.S. Model 106 and the pre-model S&W 17 and the bases are covered!
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