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Eic also-rans

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PMcfall
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Post by Merick 7/20/2022, 11:22 pm

Now that the eic approved pistol list is two pages or so, what models seem the most plausible after the 1911, xdm, match prepped 92, and p210a?

Or to put it another way; what are the bottom three of your top seven?

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Post by bmize1 7/21/2022, 12:45 am

Dan Wesson, CZ, Glock with mods

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Post by NukeMMC 7/21/2022, 4:58 am

USP Elite or Expert?
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Post by Star loader 7/21/2022, 6:09 am

If you are a real man there is only one, 1911.
How long will it be before you can shoot a water pistol ?
When that happens if you hose the target do you get a badge ?

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Post by james r chapman 7/21/2022, 7:34 am

Only if you break 250.
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Post by Merick 7/21/2022, 7:41 am

Star loader wrote:If you are a real man there is only one, 1911.
How long will it be before you can shoot a water pistol ?
When that happens if you hose the target  do you get a badge ?
I got the fire hose groups part down. Just waiting for good things to come my way, should be any day now.


Last edited by Merick on 7/21/2022, 10:03 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by BE Mike 7/21/2022, 8:46 am

When I was shooting EIC matches to earn my badge I was using an accurized 1911 and shooting factory 230 gr. fmj ammo in .45 ACP. About the best groups I could get at 50 yards with that combo was a 4" ten shot group. I eventually made it, but it was because I trained and trained with my equipment and focused on that, at the time. As long as you have a pistol that is reasonably accurate, the only thing to worry about is the "nut behind the trigger"!Smile
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Post by tovaert 7/21/2022, 9:42 am

The tricky thing with many others on the list is finding one with a nice trigger that will lift a 4# weight. For example, my LGS has an older (discontinued) CZ 75 9mm that is SA (only), but the trigger is about 2#. However, if you look at the internals of the CZ, increasing the pull weight would require custom spring(s) and that may not be easy to accomplish. It also does not have an adjustable rear sight. I have also found that pivoting vs. straight pull (1911) triggers are different and my hand seems to do better with the 1911 trigger, but YMMV.

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Post by Merick 7/21/2022, 10:47 am

BE Mike wrote: As long as you have a pistol that is reasonably accurate**, the only thing to worry about is the "nut behind the trigger"!Smile

** and reasonably reliable.

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Post by CO1Mtn 7/21/2022, 6:14 pm

This is a bit off-topic, but didn't the CMP require competitors to use their ammo that they issued before the match? I heard a rumor about that. It was all 230 gr FMJ or "ball" ammo that was military surplus, from what I heard. That must have been years ago. I heard the typical score was lower back then but everyone had the same advantage/disadvantage of shooting the same ammo for the match, so it was still balanced. You just had to bring your own pistol.

I hear that in the Amry EIC pistol matches, the pistol and ammo are both issued to you, and all you bring are your helmet and flak jacket, which are required.

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Post by NukeMMC 7/21/2022, 6:18 pm

CO1Mtn wrote:This is a bit off-topic, but didn't the CMP require competitors to use their ammo that they issued before the match? I heard a rumor about that. It was all 230 gr FMJ or "ball" ammo that was military surplus, from what I heard. That must have been years ago. I heard the typical score was lower back then but everyone had the same advantage/disadvantage of shooting the same ammo for the match, so it was still balanced. You just had to bring your own pistol.

I hear that in the Amry EIC pistol matches, the pistol and ammo are both issued to you, and all you bring are your helmet and flak jacket, which are required.
Back then it was the DCM and was part of Dept of Army.  At the Nationals they would issue Match, 230gr ball.  At Regionals and State Championship EIC matches they would issue what DCM could get.  Sometimes Match, sometimes ball.  Yes, it was all 230gr fmj.
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Post by james r chapman 7/21/2022, 6:37 pm

CO1Mtn wrote:This is a bit off-topic, but didn't the CMP require competitors to use their ammo that they issued before the match? I heard a rumor about that. It was all 230 gr FMJ or "ball" ammo that was military surplus, from what I heard. That must have been years ago. I heard the typical score was lower back then but everyone had the same advantage/disadvantage of shooting the same ammo for the match, so it was still balanced. You just had to bring your own pistol.

I hear that in the Amry EIC pistol matches, the pistol and ammo are both issued to you, and all you bring are your helmet and flak jacket, which are required.
Yes, in the OLD days, the ammo was issued.
Scores were lower generally but there was no ‘floor’ score.

So basically you suffer less, but, the field is still level.
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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2022, 6:51 pm

I would only use what starts with 19 and ends in 11.
Superior to the rest! The rest either wish they were 1911’s or try and copy 1911’s.
New fast twist barrels let you drastically download your ammunition to play by the new rules.
Early 90’s I remember ball being issued on the line at civilian regional in San Diego.
Ah the good ol’ days.
1911’s Rule!
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Post by CO1Mtn 7/21/2022, 6:52 pm

I would rather that everyone get issued the same ammo. That would really level the playing field. I think it would keep costs down, too. Instead of having to spend extra money on match grade ammo, everyone would just be buying cheap milsurp ammo. It would be less of an equipment race. And I could just buy off-the-shelf ball ammo at any gun store and it would be about the same as what I'd be competing with. It would simplify things.

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Post by james r chapman 7/21/2022, 7:06 pm

EIC? Equipment race? Only if you make it so.
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Post by Arthur 7/21/2022, 7:19 pm

CO1Mtn wrote:I would rather that everyone get issued the same ammo. That would really level the playing field. I think it would keep costs down, too. Instead of having to spend extra money on match grade ammo, everyone would just be buying cheap milsurp ammo. It would be less of an equipment race. And I could just buy off-the-shelf ball ammo at any gun store and it would be about the same as what I'd be competing with. It would simplify things.
Meh, it's not a equipment race. I just got my badge using a Range Officer with a KC Roll trigger, a trigger shoe, and grip tape. 185 Zeros over N310. Nothing special, just used that one gun, and a Nelson conversion, over 3 full seasons for all of my shooting. Don't wish for 230 grain ball. I started with 2 cases of Winchester white box. Held me back. 

Marry the gun. 

Best 
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Post by Jon Eulette 7/21/2022, 7:29 pm

Winning the Service Pistol match with good competitors present requires a good pistol. Getting leg points requires a better shooter than the pistol. Most shooters beat themselves during a leg match, it’s not pistol related.
It’s only 30 shots. A mediocre SF with decent short line always gets points.
Have watched many decent shooters tank leg matches. It’s a common occurrence.
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Post by Merick 7/21/2022, 8:16 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I would only use what starts with 19 and ends in 11.
Superior to the rest! ... 
1911’s Rule!
Jon

With all due respect,  half the gunsmiths working on 1911s exist because of (1) the other half and (2) the oem manufacturers.  

A random sample of "1911"s would be a true horror.

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Post by pgg 7/21/2022, 8:28 pm

The cut score for leg points at this year's NTI was 260.

That's an 80 at the long line plus 90 in each sustained fire.

You don't even have to hold the black to get there. Just average the outer ring of the black ... i.e. shoot a 9 or 10 for every 8 or 7. Just about any gun can do that.

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Post by Wobbley 7/21/2022, 8:59 pm

If I were to shoot something other than a 1911 in an EIC, my choice would be a customized CZ75. Some of the new polymer guns would get a close look too.  The M17/M18 shoots decently and that might be acceptable too.  The M9 would stay home.
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Post by james r chapman 7/21/2022, 9:27 pm

The XDM-5.25 shot very well as I recall.


Last edited by james r chapman on 7/22/2022, 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Jack H 7/21/2022, 10:27 pm

I legged out with points from 3 different guns
1 Gold cup from 1963  (now gone)
2 Roddy made Les Baer HB 1911  (now Roddy made wad gun)
3 Roddy tweaked M9  (now safequeen and available)

They all made about the same scores from my hand.  But the easiest to do so was with #2
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Post by chiz1180 7/22/2022, 7:48 am

CO1Mtn wrote:I would rather that everyone get issued the same ammo. That would really level the playing field. I think it would keep costs down, too. Instead of having to spend extra money on match grade ammo, everyone would just be buying cheap milsurp ammo. It would be less of an equipment race. And I could just buy off-the-shelf ball ammo at any gun store and it would be about the same as what I'd be competing with. It would simplify things.

I have tossed around the idea for providing ammo at a state match EIC and the big problem is that some shoot 45 and some shoot 9mm, the logistics case is a challenge. As far as equipment race, it only is one if you make it one. I got my hard leg at Canton with a Range officer with only comfort mods (trigger work, stippling, different slabs, ect.) but the stock barrel and bushing. 

As far as a non typical gun for service EIC, I would probably pick a P320. Has more aftermarket support than other options. I have a XDm 5.25 that would similarly fit the bill, just have not shot it in a match at this point.
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Post by NukeMMC 7/22/2022, 3:32 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Have watched many decent shooters tank leg matches. It’s a common occurrence.
Jon
Used to be called "The Knee-high Breeze" because it always blew your Leg (points) out from under you.
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Post by RoyDean 7/22/2022, 3:46 pm

"The cut score for leg points at this year's NTI was 260."

At the recent PACFLT match at Camp Pendleton only one non-distinguished shooter broke 250 (just!) and got a 10 point gold hard leg. (You can guess how I know that for sure!).

😜😜👍

"Join the Navy......."

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