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New to Service Pistol Bullseye Shooting

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mikemyers
Dcforman
Froneck
L. Boscoe
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jimmy_b_23
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Post by jimmy_b_23 Tue May 02, 2023 9:28 am

Good morning, y'all, 

I have been competing in college ISSF Bullseye shooting for the last four years and I am looking to to compete in 2700 and President's 100 Pistol competitions in July. For reference of my experience level I have made all american for the last 3 years on sport, rapid, and air pistol so I like to think I can generally hold my own in bullseye. 

I recently acquired an accurized 1911 and have been messing with 230 grain ammo. I have been flinching like no other! Additionally my natural point of aim is consistently to the right despite adjusting the my grip, moving my trigger finger right, and shifting my feet. Any tips would be appreciated!

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Post by javaduke Tue May 02, 2023 11:15 am

The vast majority of bullseye shooters here uses reduced loads and 185gr or 200gr LSWC or JHP bullets.

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Post by Wobbley Tue May 02, 2023 1:01 pm

Yeah, all you need is “Any safe ammo”.  So I’d get some Zero 185 HP and load them with 4,5 Bullseye and go play.
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Post by Dcforman Tue May 02, 2023 3:43 pm

I would venture that you're really trying to adjust to two major changes....

1. Moving a much louder and heavier recoil.
2. Moving from orthopedic grips to slabs, which require a much firmer grip. 

If this is the case, perhaps find a used conversion you can put on the service pistol lower, and shoot 22 for a while? Once you get used to the 1911 grip angle and slabs, you might find managing the recoil of the 45 less onerous. 

And yes, stop shooting 230 ball ammo!

Dave

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Post by jimmy_b_23 Tue May 02, 2023 4:18 pm

Dcforman wrote:I would venture that you're really trying to adjust to two major changes....

1. Moving a much louder and heavier recoil.
2. Moving from orthopedic grips to slabs, which require a much firmer grip. 

If this is the case, perhaps find a used conversion you can put on the service pistol lower, and shoot 22 for a while? Once you get used to the 1911 grip angle and slabs, you might find managing the recoil of the 45 less onerous. 

And yes, stop shooting 230 ball ammo!

Dave

Hey Dave, 

Thanks for that feedback! Couple questions...

1. Any idea where I can find a good 1911 conversion? 
2. I have been reading a bit on how to best grip the slabs. I didn't realize that it is noticeably different than the anatomical grip that I grew up on. Any advice/ articles that you have on how best to grip the slabs? Would it be worth investing in an anatomical grip?

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Post by NuJudge Tue May 02, 2023 4:28 pm

Marvel Conversions:  https://www.shopfcwguns.com/marvel-precision/instant-gratification-3470  

Nelson conversions:  https://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=1

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Post by Wobbley Tue May 02, 2023 4:36 pm

Well, if you want to shoot “Service pistol” they have to be “as issued” and that means slabs.  I had a set of “Anatomical” grips in my S&W 41, but I went to Herretts Trainers so now it has slabs.  As for how hard to grip slab gripped pistols, they have to be gripped about as hard as a carpenters hammer while driving framing nails.   Gripping hard tends to stiffen the ligaments in your wrist which aids in recoil recovery.  

Conversions can be found here https://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/22lr-conversion/

And here.  http://www.fcwguns.com/marvel-precision
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Post by NukeMMC Tue May 02, 2023 5:06 pm

Agreed^

What kind of 1911 is it and who accurized it?  Is it made for "ball" ammo shooting or is it a "wad" gun?

A ball gun will still shoot 185 or 200lswc loads with some recoil and/or mainspring tuning.  Probably shoot 185jhp (Zero or Nosler) with 4.0-4.3gr of VV N310 or 3.8-4.0gr of Bullseye, but again, spring tuning.

Some details on the pistol will help folks here help you.
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Post by NukeMMC Tue May 02, 2023 5:16 pm

Also, here are rules for the different types of competitions:

CMP (Service Pistol but also some "match" pistol)

NRA (mostly precision pistol)
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Post by L. Boscoe Fri May 05, 2023 4:21 pm

jimmy_b_23 wrote:Good morning, y'all, 

I have been competing in college ISSF Bullseye shooting for the last four years and I am looking to to compete in 2700 and President's 100 Pistol competitions in July. For reference of my experience level I have made all american for the last 3 years on sport, rapid, and air pistol so I like to think I can generally hold my own in bullseye. 

I recently acquired an accurized 1911 and have been messing with 230 grain ammo. I have been flinching like no other! Additionally my natural point of aim is consistently to the right despite adjusting the my grip, moving my trigger finger right, and shifting my feet. Any tips would be appreciated!
amen to the ball ammo - good way to get sore hand. Depending on your pistol, it might even shoot lower charges
of N310 than 4.0 well-mine does fine on 3.5g of n310 behind a zero 185 hp.
Also, there are many many grips that would mimic your college pistol grips.  Nill Griff for one makes a really good one (for almost $300!) there is an active forum on this site about grip and grips now

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Post by Froneck Sun May 07, 2023 9:56 am

It was said back in the day that required issued ball ammo to be used in service pistol match to grip the pistol until the oil was squeezed out of the grips. That was baloney! Grip any pistol as firm as needed so it don't move, over gripping will cause the fingers to not want to move, try it! Learning to grip the pistol properly will also prevent movement. Getting the AMU Pistol marksmanship manual will help, look for Videos made by Zins on the subject.

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Post by Dcforman Sun May 07, 2023 1:16 pm



Thanks for that feedback! Couple questions...

1. Any idea where I can find a good 1911 conversion? 
2. I have been reading a bit on how to best grip the slabs. I didn't realize that it is noticeably different than the anatomical grip that I grew up on. Any advice/ articles that you have on how best to grip the slabs? Would it be worth investing in an anatomical grip?


Lots of info out there on gripping slabs, but it seems there are a few ways to skin a cat. Gotta figure out what works for you. Bruce's book has a good section on grip, and I believe there's some info in the member pibrary here (in the new pistol shooters treasury). It seems that there are a few high masters that shoot 45 with anatomical grips, but it seems the majority shoot slabs. A few things to note...

For CMP service pistol, you have to use slabs. No anatomical grips allowed (as others stated).

For me, at least, I went through a couple boughts of tendinitis in my elbow. Eventually, I discovered it was primarily due to gripping hard while using a thick, anatomical grip that kept my hand relatively wide. Sticking with slabs, which allow my hand to close more, I haven't had any further issues. Just food for thought.

Dave

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Post by NukeMMC Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm

I was taught to grip a 1911 service pistol with a grip as if I were holding a gallon jug of milk.  Later learned to push forward with the heel of my hand while gripping the frontstrap with my 3 bottim fingers, again with a firm (not death-like) grip.
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Post by mikemyers Sun May 07, 2023 1:53 pm

Reading between the lines of what you wrote, why advice is to start by spending $10 here:
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t20747-feeling-center-a-10-bullseye-ebook-here-s-how

It answers questions you may not have thought to ask, yet.
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Post by cobbwebb Wed Sep 27, 2023 4:26 pm

Lots of good information in Bruce's book. Really helped me as a less than one year experience shooter figure out some of the basics.

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Post by Centerline Thu Sep 28, 2023 11:47 pm

Gripping a 45 is often explained as front-back and pinch at the top. Zins has a good YouTube video on the subject. Put the backstrap in your palm crease, apply pressure with bottom fingers so there is tension between front and back straps. Use the heel of thumb and index finger around the top to pinch side-side. There is some variation on that but it's pretty solid and repeatable. I feel like the action of gripping "around" the handle just introduces more chance of inconsistency. Plus, front-back vectors align with recoil and have less chance of creating unwanted vectors somewhere else.

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Post by only_8_ring Mon Oct 02, 2023 9:30 pm

Hey Jimmy, welcome!
My journey into Bullseye is pretty similar to your own. I shot intercollegiate air and free pistol circa 2012-2015 (All-American team 2015) and only got into bullseye in early 2022. I have a couple of notes for you on what worked for me.

First, your air pistol experience gives you everything you need to absolutely crush slow fire. Yeah, the .45 sight radius is different, but it hardly matters. The apparent angular width of the 10 ring in bullseye is similar to the width of the 9 ring for air pistol. If you can shoot the .45 like you shoot air, you will grow to expect 95+ slow fire targets. 

Second, the .45 is a completely different animal to anything you've shot in competition before. The trigger and ergonomics are completely different and you'll have to get comfortable with that. Learning to execute a perfect 1911 trigger pull and learning not too flinch at the different recoil are all you need. All of the rest of your fundamentals are already there. 

The 1911 can smell fear. You have to confidently pull through on the trigger every time, or you will get wild shots. 

Anyway, good luck! Keep posting on here and you'll get good advice. I also highly recommend reading pretty much all of this:
https://www.bullseyepistol.com/

My book recommendations include:
The New Shooter's Treasury (Gil Hebard)
With Winning in Mind (Lanny Bassham)
Competitive Shooting (A. A. Yur'yev)

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Post by Dpswift Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:56 pm

Ditto on Bruce's book.

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