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Zero LSWC bullet hardness

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Zero LSWC bullet hardness Empty Zero LSWC bullet hardness

Post by hengehold 5/8/2023, 10:32 am

Is there an advertised bullet hardness for the Zero 185 gr LSWC & LSWC HP? 

Trying to determine if these will work at the lower BE velocities without excessive leading. 

Thanks,
-Trevor

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Post by WesG 5/8/2023, 11:05 am

I've never seen a complaint. Swaged is more precise, and should shoot better than cast.

Hardness is irrelevant, its all about fit. See my comments in the reloading 32 thread regarding revolvers. Hard cast bullets leaded that SAA 45 just as bad as the Federal swaged SWCHP ammo I bought for it.

The softer bullet has a better chance of 'slugging up' when it gets kicked in the butt by the powder charge. And in some cases, a heavier charge will reduce leading for that reason.

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Post by S148 5/8/2023, 11:07 am

Ask Zero.

Call us at 800-204-1526 or
Click here to email rozedistribution@aol.com

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Post by PMcfall 5/8/2023, 11:15 am

Just like WesG said, its all about fit to your bore.  At our velocities, hardness is irrelevant.
For example, I regularly shoot plain base soft (40-1) rifle bullets at 1400 fps with absolutely no leading.
Phil
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Post by SingleActionAndrew 5/8/2023, 11:33 am

S148 wrote:Ask Zero.

Call us at 800-204-1526 or
Click here to email rozedistribution@aol.com
Please let us know what you find
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Post by Wobbley 5/8/2023, 1:33 pm

Most swaged bullets are in the 5 to 8 BHN level.  This is because it makes them easier to produce.  Most of them are dip lubed nowadays and some are dryfilm lubed.  Even still, they have velocity limits. Generally speaking the velocity limits for different bullets are:
Swaged Lead  BHN 5-8. 800fps
Cast 1:20 10-12 BHN 950-1000 fps.
Cast 50:50 Lino/Lead BHN 15-18 1200-1400 fps
Cast Lino BHN 22 1400-1800 fps (2200 fps gas checked) 

This is why Missouri bullets sells the same bullets in two or three hardness levels.  Action shooters load way hotter than Bullseye shooters so they need harder bullets.

Regardless of hardness it is required that the bullet fit the barrel.  

https://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php
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Post by hengehold 5/8/2023, 10:49 pm

Wobbley wrote:Most swaged bullets are in the 5 to 8 BHN level.  This is because it makes them easier to produce.  Most of them are dip lubed nowadays and some are dryfilm lubed.  Even still, they have velocity limits. Generally speaking the velocity limits for different bullets are:
Swaged Lead  BHN 5-8. 800fps
Cast 1:20 10-12 BHN 950-1000 fps.
Cast 50:50 Lino/Lead BHN 15-18 1200-1400 fps
Cast Lino BHN 22 1400-1800 fps (2200 fps gas checked) 

This is why Missouri bullets sells the same bullets in two or three hardness levels.  Action shooters load way hotter than Bullseye shooters so they need harder bullets.

Regardless of hardness it is required that the bullet fit the barrel.  

https://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php
Yes, I did read the info from Missouri bullets, that is what has me wondering if the zeros work for BE or action shooting where folks are trying to hit a power factor.

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Post by SingleActionAndrew 5/9/2023, 7:03 am

hengehold wrote:Yes, I did read the info from Missouri bullets, that is what has me wondering if the zeros work for BE or action shooting where folks are trying to hit a power factor.
The Zero swaged lead bullets are for the sake of this comparison aligned to BE shooting. They are so soft that I can easily put a line in them with a thumbnail (I use gloves now). The 38 spl SWCs I gently place into my metal bullet tray to not dent the bases, vs jacketed which I grab by the handful from the box and dump in the tray without worry.
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Post by BE Mike 5/9/2023, 10:08 am

I don't have a chronograph, but I've loaded Zero 185 gr. LSWCHP bullets in .45 ACP with 4.6 grains of Alliant Bullseye powder. I shot them out of a Springfield Armory Match Target with factory barrel and never got leading. Back when I competed in bullseye, I used to shoot the long line with Nosler 185 gr. JHP bullets and use the Zero 185 gr. LSWCHP for the short line. I never cleaned the barrel between centerfire and the .45 match and never noticed any appreciable difference long line scores. For matches, I used a Tony Kidd accurized 1911 with Kart barrel.
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Post by PMcfall 5/10/2023, 9:41 am

Approximate "Maximum" Chamber Pressure For Lead Alloys (PSI)
Plumbers lead, stick on WW 13,000 - (Black Powder Only)
Wheel weights / clip-on 
25,000 - Non-Magnum handgun
loads, Rifles to 1,900 fps
Lyman # 2 (alloy varies in
Lyman cast bullet books)
 
35,000 - Magnum handgun &
rifles to 2,000 fps
Quench-cast WW (dropped
from mould into cool water)
 
48,000 - Magnum handgun
& rifles to 2,200 fps
Oven heat treated WW 
55,000 - Jacketed velocities in handguns
and rifles with quality bore & balanced load


Bullet BHN / "Minimum" Chamber Pressure For Lead Alloys (PSI)
   The formula (from the pages of HandLoader Magazine) to determine at what pressure an alloy of given BHN will obturate the base of the bullet and seal the bore. If the bullet is too hard to obturate, gas cutting usually occurs on the base band on the non-driving side of the rifling and barrel leading is likely. Simply multiply the alloy BHN by 1,422.
   Example: Alloy BHN of 12 multiplied by 1422 = 17,064. An alloy of 12 BHN should be used with a load that develops a "minimum" of 17,000 psi. 
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Post by hengehold 5/11/2023, 3:08 pm

Based on responses here, bullet diameter/barrel diameter fit are important. I will need to identify my optimal bullet size needed for my barrel. How is this checked or adjusted?

The Brazo, Missouri Bullets, and Zero are all making .452 bullets. If this is the standard size for 45 cal bullets and I need a different size then how would I go about getting a different size?

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Post by jmdavis 5/11/2023, 4:05 pm

hengehold wrote:Based on responses here, bullet diameter/barrel diameter fit are important. I will need to identify my optimal bullet size needed for my barrel. How is this checked or adjusted?

The Brazo, Missouri Bullets, and Zero are all making .452 bullets. If this is the standard size for 45 cal bullets and I need a different size then how would I go about getting a different size?

Brazos casts in multiple sizes, others do as well. My personal finding is that the zeros shoot fine but tend to measure at .4515 rather than .452. The brazos .452 measure .452 for me. I never noticed real leading with the zero and I shoot them alot in practice/shortline.  But I did find that for me, cast shot tighter groups in testing. I attribute this to better size for my barrel.


Last edited by jmdavis on 5/11/2023, 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by PMcfall 5/11/2023, 4:13 pm

My Zeros mike .452-.452.5. Used a mike not caipers
Phil
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Post by jmdavis 5/11/2023, 4:18 pm

PMcfall wrote:My Zeros mike .452-.452.5.  Used a mike not caipers
Phil
Perhaps it is worth a retry, or a remeasure. I have measured them several times over the years with batches from 2014, 2017, and I think 2020.
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Post by PMcfall 5/11/2023, 4:25 pm

Hopefully they are over .452


Last edited by PMcfall on 5/11/2023, 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by DA/SA 5/11/2023, 6:28 pm

My Zero's measure .4523-.4525. using a recently calibrated micrometer.
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Post by hengehold 5/12/2023, 1:11 pm

How do I know what diameter is best for my gun?

Do I need to slug the barrel with a lead slug and measure it?

Do I order bullets of incrementally different sizes and shoot for group size and check for leading?

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Post by PMcfall 5/12/2023, 1:16 pm

slug your barrel, but I imagine it is .451 or so.
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Post by Rich/WIS 5/14/2023, 11:22 am

Have cast and shot well over 20K bullets through my Range Officer and a few other 1911's using the Lyman 452460 and the Lee clone of the H&G 68 with low end target loads and leading was never an issue.  My sizer die is marked .451 but think it was made on Tuesday after a long weekend because it sizes to .4515+ measured with a micrometer and a good caliper.  Alloy is on the soft side, either wheel weights or range lead.  Don't sweat hardness unless you are getting leading and then figure out why.  Modern manufacturing methods produce barrels whose dimensions are extremely uniform and those of the quality makers are not likely to wander all over the place in terms of internal dimensions.

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