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G-force Ratings on Optics and User Experiences

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Post by JRV Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:24 pm

Today, I learned that the Holosun 403/503 sights are advertised as being able to withstand twice the G-forces of an Aimpoint Micro. 

Aimpoint advertises a 500G shock resistance.  Holosun, 1,000G.  

Interestingly, Aimpoint advertises the T1/T2 line are suitable for pistol use, but Holosun’s official line from customer service was “they are not made for pistols, but they should survive on a slide ride.”

Does anyone have slide ride experience with both optics?   I know the AMU moved away from the Aimpoint Micros because of issues, and there is limited information from bullseye shooters about the Holosun products (beyond a no-longer-accessible positive article by Joe Chambers and handful of threads that do not mention much long-term use on CF/.45 guns).  

I am happy with my UltraDots for now (the optics, but certainly not the scope rings)… but I would not be opposed to swapping to a system that relies on far fewer screws if durable enough.

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Post by Wobbley Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:09 pm

Direct experience? No, but I offer that there are a metric boatload of small reflex sights of various brands being used on pistols for the better part of half a decade.  And while some on this forum might cast aspersions on the accuracy of the sports where these have predominated, the ability of these sights to hold zero appear to be incontestable.  

Now, what does this missive with the “ten dollar words” mean?  It means that these small red dots are as reliable as this sport needs.  There ARE makes that are best suited for Airsoft and not cartridge pistols, but the makers that cater to other gun optics like Burris, Vortex, Holosun, Leupold, Trijicon, Sig/Sauer, etc. have models that ARE suitable for slide mount.  It should also be noted that most of these sights use #6 size screws.  #6 size screws are virtually never considered strong enough for high G applications. 

The differences in price are generally in the OPTICAL quality of the lenses and the reflective coatings.  In some cases you're buying reputation.  In any event, any decent optic from one of the above mentioned companies and you should be fine.
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Post by JRV Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:41 pm

Wobbley, I was not asking about the open emitter reflex sight models like the 407/507.

I’ve been shooting open emitter sights since 2011. I was asking about the tube style micro dots from brands of reasonable reputation, and for long-term personal experiences with slide-ride applications (with or without upgrades like the Kodiak mounts).

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Post by Dcforman Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:54 pm

I have thousands of rounds through multiple Aimpoint Micros (H-1's) with absolutely no issues. They are my primary competition optic. I will continue using them for the foreseeable future. I also have a 403 on a 38sp 1911. Probably only a couple hundred rounds on it, but no issues so far. The only thing I don't like about the Holosun is the height is actually slightly higher than the Aimpoint. 

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Post by JRV Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:05 pm

Dcforman wrote:I have thousands of rounds through multiple Aimpoint Micros (H-1's) with absolutely no issues. They are my primary competition optic. I will continue using them for the foreseeable future. I also have a 403 on a 38sp 1911. Probably only a couple hundred rounds on it, but no issues so far. The only thing I don't like about the Holosun is the height is actually slightly higher than the Aimpoint. 

Dave

Dave, is that 403 on a blowback 1911 like the Colts or a locked-breech build?  Just curious—I imagine a straight blowback midrange would be quite tough on things (even moreso than a typical .45 wadgun load)!  And, is it on the factory mount/screw, or a Kodiak Machine?

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Post by SteveT Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:15 pm

There are a lot of ways to measure G level a part can withstand. Unless they reference a mil spec or industry standard you can't compare based on just a number of Gs.

As mentioned many many Aimpoint Micros have survived years and 10's of thousands of rounds on bullseye guns. Holosuns are newer and there are not as many out there on guns, but I've not heard any complaints. I have a Holosun on a 22. It seems to be well made, but this gun is only shot occasionally so it isn't a good durability test.
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Post by Wobbley Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:48 pm

JRV wrote:Wobbley, I was not asking about the open emitter reflex sight models like the 407/507.  

I’ve been shooting open emitter sights since 2011.  I was asking about the tube style micro dots from brands of reasonable reputation, and for long-term personal experiences with slide-ride applications (with or without upgrades like the Kodiak mounts).  
A lot of the small tube style red dot sights (and a good proportion of the bigger tube dots) are just reflex dots like the open sights.  Except they’re in a tube.  Now optically they can be enhanced with the rear lens system but that isn’t always a thing.  I’ve never found the advantage of a Kodiak mount, but all the rails on my guns meet the Picatinny standard.  Based on a pictorial “best estimate” of the dimensions of the Kodiak vs what comes on a Sig Romeo 5, I’m not seeing much of an advantage in clamping action and mount rigidity.


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Post by chiz1180 Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:54 pm

Aimpoint micros are good optics. Lots of local shooters have them on their 45s with little to no issues. Depending on where you shoot shades/filters are important, the aimpoints have support in that regard. In a properly sprung gun, a slide mount aimpoint is an excellent option.
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Post by Dcforman Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:39 am

JRV wrote:
Dcforman wrote:I have thousands of rounds through multiple Aimpoint Micros (H-1's) with absolutely no issues. They are my primary competition optic. I will continue using them for the foreseeable future. I also have a 403 on a 38sp 1911. Probably only a couple hundred rounds on it, but no issues so far. The only thing I don't like about the Holosun is the height is actually slightly higher than the Aimpoint. 

Dave

Dave, is that 403 on a blowback 1911 like the Colts or a locked-breech build?  Just curious—I imagine a straight blowback midrange would be quite tough on things (even moreso than a typical .45 wadgun load)!  And, is it on the factory mount/screw, or a Kodiak Machine?

Locked breech, so pretty soft. It's mounted on a Kodiak micro rail (not to be confused with a Kodiak mount).

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Post by RoyDean Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:04 am

JRV. Before you switch to an H1 style micro (Aimpoint, SIG, Holosun, etc.) I advise to test one first. I have owned all of them in the recent past and still have a few Aimpoint H1's on certain guns.

BUT. I have a slight Astigmatism and also suffer from floaters. I have fount that the dot in almost all of the micro tube sights tends to "flare". It varies from brand to brand, sight to sight. I moved on to 4moa Aimpoint 9000SC's for most of my guns, primarily because of that problem.

I cannot explain why I found the "flaring" problem worse in the micro-dots, but it definitely is the case for me. YMMV!

I continue to find that 1" Ultradot's usually present the clearest, roundest dot of all. Maybe I should have stuck with them!

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Post by RoyDean Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:20 am

Just read the original question.

Like Dave I've put many thousands of rounds through slide mounted micro-tube dots using OEM and Kodiak mounts. No problem with reliability or holding zero with any of them. I find the somewhat snappy recoil impulse of 32ACP to be more damaging than a typical 45 wad gun - usually causing ring/mount creep.

I did have to send a Romeo 5 back to SIG, but it was defective right out of the box. Replaced FOC.

My experience with reliability of slide mounted UD's is a different story.

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Post by JRV Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:40 am

Roy, I have the 1” UDs on both .22 and .45 currently.  

I also have astigmatism—in order for me to see “round” dots, I have to use an aperture on my dominant eye lens and a blinder.  Emitter quality (or at least emitter masking) certainly has something to do with it—the two cleanest dots I have ever used with or without correction were an Aimpoint Comp M3 and a Japanese Tasco PDP2 (very different lens qualities and battery lives, though).  

The UDs are “okay” without the aperture, just a bit streaky, but not as nice.  I have the Gen2 models, and if I have any non-optical complaints, the rheostats are too easy to rotate and the turret adjustments are soft (clicks are barely audible or tactile, and they are also easy to rotate).


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Post by RoyDean Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:59 am

JRV. Yes, seems that I have somewhat similar eyesight issues. I typically use a variable diopter on my (Champion) glasses, but depending on light conditions and my acuity at any particular moment (my eyesight changes a lot!) I sometimes swing the diopter out of the way.

I experimented extensively with Photoescape's excellent tube mounted apertures. I have his shades on all of my dots. But I now only use an aperture ring on the H1, at the eye end, simply to obscure the emitter housing inside the tube, which I find distracting.

Deciding on the perfect balance of dot brightness, diopter opening (or none), green or grey tint lens for floater control, etc., can be a nightmare, especially on days when the light conditions vary wildly. Ho hum!

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Post by impalanut Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:29 pm

I bring my red dots into the optometrist when I get shooting glasses and we work on the astigmatism until I see a round dot. My astigmatism is moderate and I also had my cataracts done 4 years ago, which changed all my glasses. A good optometrist should have you seeing rounds dots with no flare if they can work with you.

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Post by RoyDean Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:42 pm

With all due respect, Impalanut, eyes are complicated. Communicated with all of the experts, thank you all, gentlemen. Visited a highly accredited Optometrist.

Bottom line is that, with quite mild Astigmatism, plus a lot of floaters, in variable light conditions, very small adjustments are essential. Hence all of my complicated explanations. Sorry.

Iron sights are even more difficult.

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