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Twist rate for .22 pistol barrel

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AlEg
chopper
kruppd
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chiz1180
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Wobbley
james r chapman
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Post by Froneck 10/22/2023, 3:29 pm

I want the best twist rate barrel for use in target pistol. Anyone know what twist rate Nelson is using? Or was using since the company was sold to Dillon. I may have asked before but can't remember. Being busy in my shop I don't have time to read all the info posted on .22 LR barrel twist rate! Been weeks since I touched my .22 conversion but it's almost complete!
 However I do want to get a barrel on order to make a .22 barrel for Adam.
 Frank

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Post by james r chapman 10/22/2023, 4:46 pm

Tell us more about the sale.
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Post by Jon Eulette 10/22/2023, 5:18 pm

MacMillan Rifles was doing Nelson's CNC machining until they were sold. Not sure who Nelson used after that. So sold to Dillon, hmmmm. Nothing on their websites.

As far as barrel twist goes 1:16 is used by majority of match 22 LR pistol and rifle manufacturers. 
Jon
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Post by james r chapman 10/22/2023, 6:55 pm

https://riflebarrels.com/rimfire-precision-barrels/
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Post by Froneck 10/22/2023, 8:45 pm

When talking to Larry he mentioned he was looking for a different barrel maker because the one he was using was sold to Dillon. Dillon didn't want outside work because they were to busy making their own stuff. I can't remember the barrel makers name! McMillan or McGowen comes to mind but I could be wrong! Been quite a while ago when I talked to Larry!
 I did look at my previous post, I'm looking for twist rate info. Jim you posted Anschuts is 1:16.5, I'm finding slow velocity ammo like Eley OSP (purple box) does not shot well in pistol made with Anchutz barrel. Yet when compared to a Nelson OSP shoots very good!
 So I'm looking for twist rate best in pistol length .22 LR barrels.
 Being Adam has shot 10X a few times in matches at 50 yards with both .22 and .45acp I want the best I can get for him!

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Post by WesG 10/23/2023, 3:20 pm

Lilja has a 15, Shilen both 15 and 14, which they list for pistol barrels.

I have an oddball leftover experimental 18 twist from Lilja. I got it just to try out 22 shorts in a rifle to see how they'd do. Wound up rechambering to LR, and I've shot it at 200 yds with good results.

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Post by Froneck 10/23/2023, 6:29 pm

Does anyone know what twist rate some of the top shooting pistols use? Pistols like Pardini, Hammerli, Walther and others. I'm thinking 1:15 might be good middle twist rate to get from a top barrel maker.
 When talking to Larry he said Dillon purchased the company that was making the barrels and support. He would get completed units that he chambered and crowned and why he didn't have any support blocks. It was complete unit or nothing. He did ask Dillon if they would continue making the barrels and was told they didn't want to do outside work, they have too much of their own work to contend with. Larry said one of the CNC machinist got a job with another company and asked his boss if they would be interested in doing Nelson's work, was told yes. At the time he was waiting for some prototypes of the barrel and support. When I get a chance I intend to make a few support blocks and try Right hand 3/8 - 40 threads not the left hand Nelson is using. Maybe 10mm X 1mm


Last edited by Froneck on 10/23/2023, 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by james r chapman 10/23/2023, 6:45 pm

I might make a 6” for my unused Advantage Arms
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Post by Wobbley 10/23/2023, 7:57 pm

From what I can tell, most are in the 1:16 range.  The CIP lists a twist of 405mm (15.9) and Lothar Walther uses 416mm (16.4). FWIW!
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Post by Sa-tevp 10/23/2023, 8:39 pm

What does the USAMU use in their Franken-Hammerlis? The AMU should have some good data and what they use to replace the factory barrels. I got to see one shoot 100-7X with inside Tens at fifty yards on the first 22 string of fire.
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Post by Jack H 10/23/2023, 9:01 pm

To the best of my recall, Randy at CPC used Douglass blanks.  I have one for a HS. It is super good.

Long ago Lou Lombardi told me he had a great liner source that stopped providing.  I wonder who that was.  His second sourced liners were not as good he said.
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Post by Froneck 10/23/2023, 9:20 pm

Sa-tevp, my son shot 10X at 50 yards quite a few times with one of those Franken-Hammerlies. But he has retired and no longer in the AMU. I asked him to call the AMU smith and get some info. He's also shot 10X a few times with the .45acp.
 That's why any pistol I build for him has to be a tack driver!
 Jack H, I have a liner in my home made conversion, purchased it from Brownells. I wasn't concerned with accuracy. Function was my goal if every thing worked I buy a barrel blank. I used a liner because the barrel and support is one piece. Being I have the dimensions from the sleeved barrel I can get a barrel with enough meat to make a one piece barrel.

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Post by bmize1 10/23/2023, 9:37 pm

The most accurate 22lr I’ve ever shot was a Bullberry contender with a 14tw barrel, 12” long.
With SK pistol match ammo, it was an easy 1/2 moa at 100yds.

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Post by Jack H 10/24/2023, 12:07 am

I just remembered a Ransom Rest 50y target from a Federson barrel in an OPA clone of Ruger.  
I should have kept going past 5 shots.  But I was trying with and without the comp.
The first 4 were real tight.  The 5th probably was the ammo.  CCI SV
Twist rate for .22 pistol barrel OPAtgt1
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Post by Froneck 10/24/2023, 6:47 am

Group size is good to know but what was the twist rate of the barrels? Being I'm using the barrel in a .22 conversion 5" barrel length length is being used.
 What about ammo velocity, anyone know how the listed velocity is measured as to length of barrel used? Do all the velocities listed on the ammo box developed from the same barrel length? I did find a chart for SK ammo, velocity is from 26" barrel for rifle ammo and 4.7" and 5.9" barrels for pistol ammo. But is the velocity in the chart the same as what is listed on the box? (https://sk-ammunition.com/rimfire/ballistic-data/)

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Post by chiz1180 10/24/2023, 7:56 am

Honestly looking at the availability of all the different twists and makers available, a "perfectly correct" twist isn't really a thing. Lot to Lot ammo variation probably makes more significant difference than the twist rate. I would choose on a vendor for a blank(or sleeve) see if they have any insights, then just pick something that is available and give it a try. If it is not up to your standards, try something else. If the lore is correct old kart conversions used marlin model 60 cut offs, those were 1:16 RH.
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Post by Wobbley 10/24/2023, 10:49 am

Twist rate for .22 pistol barrel Img_0113
This chart dips from S-K.  The barrel lengths are indicated.  Pistol loads show a velocity of 950 fps or so.  Rifle loads ar just under 1100.  But I’d be surprised if they were loaded to different recipes.  
Froneck wrote:Group size is good to know but what was the twist rate of the barrels? Being I'm using the barrel in a .22 conversion 5" barrel length length is being used.
 What about ammo velocity, anyone know how the listed velocity is measured as to length of barrel used? Do all the velocities listed on the ammo box developed from the same barrel length? I did find a chart for SK ammo, velocity is from 26" barrel for rifle ammo and 4.7" and 5.9" barrels for pistol ammo. But is the velocity in the chart the same as what is listed on the box? (https://sk-ammunition.com/rimfire/ballistic-data/)
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Post by Froneck 10/24/2023, 11:19 am

Wobbley; That is the same chart I posted a link to. Are you saying all the Ammo is the same and they tested in in different barrel lengths? If so why is there different velocities for same barrel length? Granted a shorter pistol barrel will have a lower velocity than a long barrel with the same ammo.
 Chiz: Some time ago I purchased a Douglas barrel to re-barrel a friend High Standard. Was winter and cold out side so I tested it in our clubs indoor range, it shot terrible at 50 feet! No matter what I tried I could not get a good group. Yeah the group was small about 1-1/2" but that would get worse at 50 yards! I finally called a friend Floyd Aikman and explained all I did. He asked if I told Douglas I was making a pistol barrel, I replied yes! He said NEVER tell the barrel maker your using the barrel in a pistol! So later I called Douglas and said I'm making a .22 bench rest rifle and the guy insists on a Douglas barrel, thinks they are the best made! I got the barrel, grouped one hole at 50', took it out side and at 25 yards it still grouped one hole, at 50 yards it was little bigger than dime size! Ever since then I never purchased "pistol" barrels though I never did a .22 rifle barrel! So buying barrel blanks to experiment from the top makers will get quite expensive! Not to mention the time it takes to machine the barrel from a blank!

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Post by Wobbley 10/24/2023, 11:23 am

Only way to find out, really, is to shoot both “types” of ammo in the same barrel.  But I also know that both SAAMI and CIP specify the same barrels for velocity and pressure testing.  So I’m inferring that the ammo is loaded the same whether for pistol or rifle.   And looking at it from a manufacturing standpoint why would it be different?  Different lube? Sure.  Different final form on the bullet? Sure.  But powder charge? I’m not sure that gets you much.
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Post by mbmshooter 10/24/2023, 12:39 pm

I recall that Bob Day used Shillen barrels for his conversions.  When he restarted producing them as the Day 30X he tried the Ruger micro-groove.  I din't like the one I bought from him and had him replace it with a Shillen which worked great.
I notice that for the .222 barrels Shillen offers twist rates from 10 to 17.

Adam is a lucky man to have you being so finicky about the barrels you eventually select for your builds.

Mike

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Post by Froneck 10/24/2023, 2:24 pm

I contacted Shillen, for their top grade .22 rim fire barrel there is a 1 year back log! I asked if they had any .22 rim fire barrel available, NO! 6 months for chrome Molly match barrel! Douglas don't answer the phone.
 Up date, Lilja barrel they have sitting is on the way!

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Post by Froneck 10/31/2023, 5:04 pm

Ordered and received SS Lilja .22 standard barrel ( only type in stock) 1:16 twist. (AMU said they only use 1:16 twist)
 Found my chambering reamer when I put a micrometer on it diameter near the rim is .230"and .227" near the end. Not a Bentz reamer! Ordered Bentz from Mason, stock solid pilot reamer is .2185" Lilja bore tested .218 gauge pin would not fit, .217 did so have reamers with bushing ordered with .217" bushing. Finisher will take 2 weeks and rougher 2 weeks more! So I ordered solid carbide reamer .221" to rough part of the chamber and use the finisher to complete the chamber until the rougher comes to do other barrels!
 Will report the results after all arrives, Also got a Teslong bore scope pistol length, interesting gadget! Puts bore on my computer screen!

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Post by kruppd 10/31/2023, 7:00 pm

You referred to your source for the reamer as Mason, there is a source near me, they are in Grand Blanc, MI, Manson Reamers that does this type of work, just wondered if it was them.

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Post by chopper 10/31/2023, 8:39 pm

Frank, I bought their 10" bore scope also, damned good scope for $50. The scope is real clear and detailed once I read the directions and set the mirror distance and found the right light intensity that worked best for me.  I like it, because I found a bad carbon ring and another barrel with cracks in it.
 Stan

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Post by AlEg 11/1/2023, 2:55 am

Interesting topic. I never considered twist rate for rimfire pistols.

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