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CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02

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Post by Pinetree 1/26/2024, 9:01 am

Anyone having FTF issues with this one?

I sure am. Bought a case of it (blue box/orange stripe) and have had nearly a dozen failures to fire from the first two bricks.

Sent some back to CCI and their tests showed that my firing pin was striking .006" instead of the .012"  that SAMMI requires.

Just eyeballing the brass and comparing it to the other guys on the line, mine look as good or even deeper as those that have fired.

I gave the gun a good scrubbing, and replaced both springs (S&W M41), and ordered a new firing pin. 

But the main point of this post is that they claim to have made 100K rounds of this lot and I was the only one to complain...

So I thought I would check with you folks.

Thanks.
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Post by james r chapman 1/26/2024, 11:12 am

FYI

Question: 
I've gone from the dark blue CCI00035 to the new light blue CCI00035 and am having failure to fires with a number of rounds in LOT #H23CA04. Has there been issues with this lot? My old CCI fired without incident. These act like there was insufficient primer compount. Please advise thanks


CCI-Looking at this lot this was made in 3[size=11]rd quarter of 2021 with a batch of about 150,000 rounds and this is the first reported issue.[/size]


additional photos comparing cases.
new lot on left, old lot (dark blue) on right.
Very distinctive difference in case quality.

CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  2d337f2e-410f-4ff9-a1b2-54767076b499


Always the same answer…
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Post by jwax 1/26/2024, 1:11 pm

Many of us has received that same reply from CCI regarding insufficient "Impact Depth" of the firing pin causing FTF over the years. Sounds reasonable, right?
What you do with those rounds is pull the bullet, and dump the contents on white paper. In the powder you may find flakes of green primer compound that broke away from the rim of the brass. That's poor primer bonding.
You may find no green material at all- that's no or low primer.
Look inside the brass and see if any green primer is in the rim. Your pin impact point may have missed absent primer. That's insufficient primer.
Perhaps with pictures of the above, CCI will admit to defective cartridges and fully replace them.
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Post by Pinetree 1/27/2024, 4:52 pm

Yep, that's exactly what I found.

All of the green primer compound shook out of the case when I opened it, and there was nothing in the rim.

Disappointing to say the least.


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Post by RodJ 1/27/2024, 5:05 pm

Friend bought some at my recommendation and I now look like other a dumb— or a-hole. Terrible. Including in Ruger mark pistols. I’ve asked for a photo of the lot number.

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Post by RodJ 1/27/2024, 5:06 pm

Maybe this is part of a CCI commitment to reduce lead in ammunition??? Would be funny… if it weren’t funny.

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Post by Pinetree 1/27/2024, 5:12 pm

I don't have any tiny micrometers, but I do know that a .010" guitar string fits easily into the firing pin strike on the rim.

This kinda sucks. I still have eight bricks left of this lot.. not a big deal, I'll relegate it for plinking.. but now I have to come up with something else to shoot, and I feel like they could have handled it better.


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Post by straybrit 1/27/2024, 8:42 pm

Essentially they are in the position of being able to sell everything they can produce and at elevated prices. So they are under no obligation (from their point of view) to lose money by keeping the quality good. Welcome to MBA thinking. They just really don't GaS. Personally I've switched to Aguila for practice / plinking (yes - they have their issues - but at half the cost) and SK for matches.
I've been having a lot of issues with CCI LPPs as well. Moved to Winchester for match loads. I've got quite a few left to work through but once that's done CCI won't be troubling my budget in the future.

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Post by RodJ 1/27/2024, 10:57 pm

H15EA06 This lot number is hideous.

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Post by Pinetree 1/28/2024, 12:08 am

I've never tried to upload pictures on this forum but here goes.

CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  Img_2012
CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  Img_2013
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Post by jwax 1/28/2024, 3:18 pm

Pinetree- send those photos off to CCI. Firing pin strikes are NOT the issue!

That ammo is good for "Ball and Dummy" training! Ya never know if it'll bang or not.
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Post by Pinetree 1/28/2024, 3:35 pm

Thanks, already did.

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Post by straybrit 1/28/2024, 3:37 pm

It's a Sunday and I feel like s**t stirring. If they have responded to multiple people saying "you're the only one this has happened to" and we have pictures like this - surely there's a basis for a class action lawsuit. Though a bunch of "gun nuts" suing an ammo company does rather smack of cognitive dissonance.

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Post by RodJ 1/28/2024, 4:26 pm

I’ll unload some of my friends ammo and see what it looks like. He says CCI won’t do anything but I’m with straybrit. Where’s my large wooden spoon? Spank them with a multi-party complaint letter. Then copy Rimfire Central and the other usual suspects. And the retailers.

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Post by fc60 1/28/2024, 4:29 pm

Greetings,

Fractured priming compound can result in the shipping/handling of the ammo.

When I shopped at Ron Kesselring's in Washington, I watched them carefully unload a semi truck of 22lr ammo. The boxes were handled with "kid gloves" and moved into the warehouse with a minimum of disruption.

Ron was a top notch smallbore shooter and knew that if you dropped a full case of 22 ammo on the ground the shock would fracture the priming compound.

I gleaned the same story from one of the top Marine shooters.

The average gun store is not fussy about this. They will toss and drop heavy boxes at will.

Let's add in shipping. UPS and FEDEX are generally pretty good. However, some employees do not care as much and rough handle the boxes.

I have used CCI SV for 30 years and, fortunately, have not had one fail to go "bang". And, in a rest, all the lots shot inside the ten-ring at 50 yards with ease. Generally, x-ring.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by RodJ 1/28/2024, 5:25 pm

Thanks for pulling me back from the edge, Dave lol

That begs the question in my mind, how all my other ammo (eley Aguila CCI minimags Blazer etc doesn’t show multiple failures to fire in a single box. And why the older boxes didn’t have this issue?

But I am more than willing to be educated, especially by you because of all the work you have put in and the data you have shared here. It’s truly amazing and I suspect I’m not the only person who always reads what you have to say.

Thanks!

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Post by NukeMMC 1/28/2024, 6:09 pm

I've had a few of the 0032 boxes arrive after some poor packaging. Of the 3 boxes of J20E102 shown here, none failed to fire. Out of about a full case of 0032 that I have fired over the past 6 months, I think I've had less than 6 FTF.

CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  20240112
CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  20240114
CCI Standard Velocity Lot# K31EA02  20240113
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Post by rich.tullo 2/16/2024, 9:24 am

I have had the same issue , new production is better but not up to the old standard.
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Post by Slamfire 2/17/2024, 7:51 pm

An aggravating factor is that the S&W M41 does not have a powerful ignition system, and the firing pin block will fill up with oil.

When the firing pin is swimming in oil, firing pin strike will be weakened by the effort to push the firing pin through muck.  I was having many stove pipes, failures to feed, due to weak CCI SV ignition. I replaced springs, and finally took the firing pin and its block out and found the pin was swimming in oil. I cleaned that out and ignition reliability improved, with all the new springs.

After every match I learned how to blow the firing pin channel out with compressed air. You have to put the nozzle on the firing pin tip, and press on the back of the firing pin so it moves forward. With the firing pin at rest, the pin blocks gas, so you have to move it forward to have a channel to blow oil out.

But, even with this, ignition was still too unreliable.

So I switched over to my Ruger MKII's. Clark did a trigger job, with their trigger that is adjustable for take up and release. My Ruger's obviously put more energy on the rim, and ignition is much more reliable. Which tells me, ignition system energy is critical for reliable function. Of course I still have alibis' due to dud CCI SV, but it is less.

I would have thought that pistol 22lr ammunition would have a more sensitive priming compound and a faster powder for function. Not so according to an Eley representative. The primary difference between rifle match and pistol match is the lubricant coating. Rifle match lubricant is wax based, pistol match is vegetable based.

I do have a Smallbore Rifle match bud who was desperate for match ammunition.  A case of Lapua pistol match came up, and he purchased it. It shot as well as his rifle match, and the velocity was the same (ish) out of his rifle barrel.

I will say, when it comes to ammunition, you get what you pay. CCI SV is cheap, will hold the ten ring, and it is less function reliable than the more expensive stuff.

I am sure there are more differences between a $200 case of CCI SV and a $1700 case of Eley Pistol match.

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Post by Gustavo1957 2/18/2024, 9:37 am

=watchlist&sort[0][c]=lot_number&sort[0][d]=asc]https://www.laibids.com/account/watchlist?page=2&pageSize=25&search=&filter%5Blist_type%5D=watchlist&sort%5B0%5D%5Bc%5D=lot_number&sort%5B0%5D%5Bd%5D=asc

 There is Aguila Pistol Match bricks - Ely Primed in this auction. 

 And a  cool mortar that would be good to start and end outdoor matches.

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Post by james r chapman 2/18/2024, 11:11 am

Don’t want to register at an auction site to see it!!

Rolling Eyes
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Post by Gustavo1957 2/18/2024, 1:32 pm

https://www.laibids.com/auctions/31263-firearms-ammo-and-sportsman-bainbridge-ny-february-21-2024

Shouldn't have to register to look.

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Post by Foundryratjim 2/18/2024, 1:45 pm

Gustavo1957 wrote:https://www.laibids.com/auctions/31263-firearms-ammo-and-sportsman-bainbridge-ny-february-21-2024

Shouldn't have to register to look.
You dont. Just scroll down

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Post by bruce martindale 2/18/2024, 2:00 pm

It should pass the plunk test too. ie drops freely into the chamber. If it takes force to enter the last skosh, that absorbs the firing pin hit .  That issue of insufficient headspace can also cause accuracy issues.

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Post by james r chapman 2/18/2024, 4:40 pm

That link works better. Thanks
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