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45 ACP case trimming for Bullseye shooting

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Ed Hall
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/2/2024, 5:50 pm

Setting aside the argument or discussion of whether brass needs to be trimmed for accuracy purposes. What dimension should be used relative to your chamber dimension ? And what is the proper way to get the chamber spec can a caliper be used to get an accurate measurement. 
Thanks !!
MS

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Post by NukeMMC 5/2/2024, 5:56 pm

Accuracy of the caliper measurement is dependent upon the operator.
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Post by fc60 5/2/2024, 6:36 pm

Greetings,

I have been testing more 45 ACP ammo lately and for my reloads I use only the cases that measure 0.890" long after sizing.

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Dr.Don 5/3/2024, 9:31 am

It should perhaps be mentioned that 45acp cases get shorter with use, not longer.  Hence a case trimmer is not required for this caliber.  But I agree with Dave that for ultimate accuracy testing use the longer cases, i.e. new or near new.
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/3/2024, 2:24 pm

Yes agree they get shorter but usually at different rates I plan on sizing and trimming my new case for the 50 yard line shooting and shooting 25 yards with the once or twice fired cases. I just did some testing this morning with a bullseye load 4.4 gr. under a 185 nosler jhp seated to 1.200 shot very well was new starline brass not trimmed though.

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Post by john bickar 5/5/2024, 2:54 am

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

I have been testing more 45 ACP ammo lately and for my reloads I use only the cases that measure 0.890" long after sizing.

Cheers,

Dave
45 ACP case trimming for Bullseye shooting  Movie-time-movie
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/6/2024, 8:39 am

Thanks for the replies I guess I might have posed the question incorrectly? How long should the case be in relation to the chamber length and or hood obviously either flush or below the hood if these dimensions matter ?

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Post by ermakevin 5/6/2024, 10:48 am

Muzzlestuffer wrote:Yes agree they get shorter but usually at different rates I plan on sizing and trimming my new case for the 50 yard line shooting and shooting 25 yards with the once or twice fired cases. I just did some testing this morning with a bullseye load 4.4 gr. under a 185 nosler jhp seated to 1.200 shot very well was new starline brass not trimmed though.
hello all my new Starline brass is 0.890-0.893 i guess people trim the 0.893 down to 0.890.
I'm not trimming new brass, i just keep reloading until it reaches 0.890 lol
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Post by Wobbley 5/6/2024, 11:54 am

Here is the SAAMI print of a 45ACP match chamber. Note that the “headspace” dimension is .898 to .920. So even a .893 case is sloppy. Also note that the bore just ahead of the chamber is reamed in a short cone with a shallow angle. So how to control the “Headspace” to maintain accuracy? Easy. Seat the bullet so the shoulder of the SWC acts as the “headspace” control feature. In a RN projectile takes a little fiddling but it also works well. Just adjust your bullet seating depth to control the end-to-end positioning of the round. Don’t worry about case length.

45 ACP case trimming for Bullseye shooting  Img_1410
45 ACP case trimming for Bullseye shooting  Img_0116
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/6/2024, 5:33 pm

Great view of the specs thanks !

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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/6/2024, 11:59 pm

I shot my first center-fire bullseye match tonight it was fun and I liked it much better than the normal 22lr match. I shot my Sbardella 45 with my loads of 185 gr Nosler JHP over 4.4 grs of Bullseye and a F150 primer. I had the original factory 17 lb recoil spring in it I think I'll try a 15 lb spring and keep playing with loads maybe 4.1 of bullseye or I have some 185's I loaded with 4.1 N310. I definitely learned a couple things about grip on the gun affects the accuracy greatly as well as determining my point of aim got better as the match went on. BTW it was only 25 yards these guy's at this match don't shoot 50 but I'm going up to Show Low at the end of the month for a 2700 match. Been doing some good reading here on some of the posts especially about spring weights and so on.

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Post by john bickar 5/7/2024, 2:09 am

If 4.4 BE works, why F with case length or recoil spring weight?

This ain't rocket surgery. Clean the short line and the rest just kinda magically takes care of itself.

This is not directed specifically at you; more at anyone who gets wrapped around the axle on things like case length and recoil spring weights:

Hit me up when you've cleaned the short line and you haven't yet accomplished your goals. Then we'll talk. I have some words.

Until then: clean the short line. It's simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. You can lob lubed rocks at 25 yards and still clean the short line. Do that.
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Post by DA/SA 5/7/2024, 8:36 am

Muzzlestuffer wrote:I shot my first center-fire bullseye match tonight it was fun and I liked it much better than the normal 22lr match. I shot my Sbardella 45 with my loads of 185 gr Nosler JHP over 4.4 grs of Bullseye and a F150 primer. 
Order a couple thousand cast 185 0r 200 LSWC, and get to work on the short line. No sense wasting money on more expensive ammo.

Until you are pretty good at the short line in both SF and sustained fire, why waste expensive ammo at the long line?

Spend your time working on your shooting skills, not your ammo!  Smile
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/7/2024, 8:54 am

Those are what I had for the moment I’m planning on a new mold and cast my own but will buy some less expensive ones for the time being. I really wasn’t planning on shooting centerfire just yet but since I have a decent gun I decided to start now. Definitely need to cheapen things up !!

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Post by Ed Hall 5/7/2024, 9:11 am

You may like to review this post from the past and note item 8:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t6542-sorting-cases#52594

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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/7/2024, 9:17 am

Ed Hall wrote:You may like to review this post from the past and note item 8:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t6542-sorting-cases#52594
Trimming is a very time consuming affair to be sure I think just sorting once you have enough once fired will be the way to go. Thanks for the info everyone. 
Ms

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Post by DA/SA 5/7/2024, 9:31 am

But then there is Cecil's (CR10X) post a few posts down...

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t6542-sorting-cases#52594

I guess it boils down to what makes you confident in your equipment.

I never met Cecil, but his posts always seemed logical to me.

When I read these posts on "improvements" I often wonder just how much of an improvement there actually was. Seldom do you see comparative targets posted to illustrate the difference, such as targets differentiating the actual difference between same and differing length brass. 

I'm not doubting that there can be an improvement, but is the juice really worth the squeeze?

To paraphrase Dave Wilson, "Shoots great!" or "Shoots better than I can" isn't really a valid quantification.  Smile

I'll maintain that until my normal shooting groups match my rested groups, I just need to keep working harder with what I have!
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Post by Wobbley 5/7/2024, 9:50 am

Just keep in mind: Bullseye pistols are not Benchrest rifles! They shoot well, but you can only do so much fiddling with reloading minutia. Trimming a 45 Auto case is minutia.
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Post by fc60 5/7/2024, 11:34 am

You can lob lubed rocks at 25 yards and still clean the short line. Do that.

-Bickar

Great. Now I have to decide what weight rocks, round rocks or wadcutter rocks, greased rocks or coated rocks, soft rocks or hard rocks.

Just when I was getting the hang of "Lead Rocks".

Cheers,

Dave
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Post by Dr.Don 5/7/2024, 12:30 pm

I saw a post years ago, perhaps on here, about a guy who walked the downrange area of Camp Perry one evening and picked up a can full of fired 45 230gr hardball bullets.  They're all over the ground down there.  He took them home, cleaned them, loaded them up and they were accurate enough at 25 yards.  Supports your point John.

Sorry for the pure diversion.j

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Post by john bickar 5/7/2024, 1:41 pm

fc60 wrote:You can lob lubed rocks at 25 yards and still clean the short line. Do that.

-Bickar

Great. Now I have to decide what weight rocks, round rocks or wadcutter rocks, greased rocks or coated rocks, soft rocks or hard rocks.

Just when I was getting the hang of "Lead Rocks".

Cheers,

Dave
Big, heavy rocks, for you, Dave. Pointy and sharp ones.

You are on a very short list, my friend.

999/1000 Bullseye shooters get wrapped around the axle about things like spring weight and case trim length before even making it to SS scores.

Your experimentation is the 1/1000.

Everyone else: learn to squeeze the trigger. Clean the short line. It ain't easy, but it's simple.

Hey, have I said this before? Clean your f*cking short line.

2650s await you if you do.
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Post by targetshooter_10x 5/7/2024, 2:18 pm

"Clean the short line. It ain't easy, but it's simple."

- Nuf said! Volumes have been written on those 2 short sentences.
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Post by chiz1180 5/7/2024, 2:49 pm

john bickar wrote:Everyone else: learn to squeeze the trigger. Clean the short line. It ain't easy, but it's simple.

Hey, have I said this before? Clean your f*cking short line.

2650s await you if you do.

This may seem harsh to some, but it has some serious truth. The short line is typically 2/3 of the match (half if considering the President’s course). People will spend tons of time getting the long line load that from a rest that will shoot incredibly well, wear themselves out shooting slowfire and be completely burned out by rapid fire. 

Yes small details in ammo can make a difference, but 99.99% of the time these differences are so small that in a training or match setting they are insignificant. 

Find ammo that works (functions and groups sub 3” at 50 is ideal) and stick with it.
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Post by Muzzlestuffer 5/7/2024, 6:05 pm

I appreciate all the comments but I see nothing wrong with asking questions and learning about a subject whether you use the information or not it's good to have in the round file for troubleshooting or whatever I'm not sure I'll ever be any good at the centerfire game but at 60 years old I'm trying to gain as much advantage as possible. There are reasons i may want to shoot a less snappy gun "if" possible due to years of my trade type of work has taken a toll on my hands hence the reason for a lighter load and spring weight. This is kinda embarrassing but here's my last rapid fire target from last night's match it was the better group I shot as I changed different things like grip on my gun and trying to find point of aim on a consistent basis. 45 ACP case trimming for Bullseye shooting  Img_1510

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Post by DA/SA 5/7/2024, 6:19 pm

Not embarrassing at all. This isn't an easy game to learn.

Ignore the "undesirable" shots completely and focus on the ones you want to see more of.

Stick with it!


Last edited by DA/SA on 5/7/2024, 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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