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9mm 1911 for a Bullseye, Service Pistol and Centerfire 900

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john bickar
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9mm 1911 for a Bullseye, Service Pistol and Centerfire 900 - Page 2 Empty 9mm 1911 for a Bullseye, Service Pistol and Centerfire 900

Post by chiz1180 5/29/2024, 10:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

I recently have completed (well mostly) my 9mm 1911 build. I built it to be a service pistol or potential metallic CF option. Basic idea metallic sights (nope, not putting a dot on this) 4lb trigger. The theory behind this build was ammo availability, in general 9mm ammo is highly available, and I have Atlanta Arms available locally as well. It also seemed like it would be a nice challenging build.


So for fun I will respond to the stereotypical responses for points people bring up with shooting a centerfire caliber other than 45 ACP or another CF caliber. If I miss any, feel free to let me know, I can defend my poor (maybe) decisions. 


“You should shoot a 45, it's easier to learn 2 guns instead of 3”
Already have a 45 in both the wadgun and ballgun flavors. If your fundamentals are solid, I feel that the gun (assuming it is capable) is not as critical. In fact I typically learn quite a bit shooting different guns on an occasion. 


“You should have built a 38 wadcutter or a 38 super”
Already have the 38 wadcutter. 38 super ammo is not readily available, this would mean reloading another caliber for one specific gun. Not as appealing as the 9mm where I can go buy ammo for it just about anywhere that sells ammo. A super does have potential for a future build (because why not?).


“But a 32 has marginally more recoil than a 22!”
Can’t shoot a 32 in a service pistol match (yes I know much of Europe utilized 32 caliber service pistols in WW1, that particular caliber did not stand the test of time in the service application). Also much like the 38 wadcutter or 38 super previously mentioned, a special caliber to load and with harder to find components. With the 9mm, I can shoot it for both a CF 900 and a service pistol match, much more versatility. 


“A 45 will score higher than a 9mm”
100 percent true, I do not disagree with this at all. However I don’t worry about the score when I am shooting, when I am shooting I worry about shooting to the best of my ability and let the score shake out at the end. 


“Old, fat and slow works”
100%, definitely not bailing on my 45s just adding variety.


“You need to run hot loads for the gun to be accurate”
Thus far I have run mostly factory or book load jacketed ammo. Winchester white box (and other similar loads) is not a hot load and It actually is rather pleasant to shoot. I am of the opinion that if people spent more time dry firing and conditioning to shoot a match instead of chasing the absolute lightest possible loads, scores across the board would be higher. 


So TL:DR, I built a 9mm 1911, I have been enjoying shooting it. A 9mm has its place and in certain circumstances it is a fantastic option. Is it the best option, probably not for everyone. Photo below because people like pictures more than words.


9mm 1911 for a Bullseye, Service Pistol and Centerfire 900 - Page 2 9mm_1910

I have shot two NMCs with the gun at this point, a 267-5 and a 270-11 (TF target shown from the 2nd NMC, also had a miss in that particular NMC.. opps…), this is roughly on par with my 45 service guns. I have not had the motivation to put the gun in a ransom rest yet, but all indications seem to point that the gun is capable. Looking forward to running this in a few matches soon.


Last edited by chiz1180 on 6/12/2024, 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by chiz1180 6/3/2024, 7:21 pm

john bickar wrote:Why you gotta make fun of old, fat, and slow?

I feel persecuted.
I am equal opportunity, I easily belong in to at least 2/3 of that group possibly the entire group depending on who you ask. Which reminds me do I still have ice cream in the freezer....
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Post by Wobbley 6/3/2024, 8:07 pm

chiz1180 wrote:Len, Does the 10mm brass act like 10mm sockets and just magically disappear?

There’s a vacuum that sucks every thing 10mm into the nearest dark hole, sockets, wrenches, brass…everything.!
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Post by Colt711 6/7/2024, 9:08 pm

I have stuck to shooting the same gun, the same load, and as often as possible.  A certain feel and rythm is acheived. Changing the powder charge, bullet weight, gun or caliber introduces a variable that is undesirable.
Bill Blankenship spoke of shooting his .38 rather than the .45 on a still day as it was worth a "couple points" however these guys are in a diiferent class.

I no longer compete so enjoy shooting a couple of .38 1911's and a Sig P210. I aquired the .38's planning on their use when the competitive yrs were over.

Ron Habegger

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Post by chiz1180 6/7/2024, 9:35 pm

Ron,

I agree with your thoughts on feel and rhythm, though I also like to explore variety. If I bothered to look back at my match log my "best" scores were shot with the "primary guns" while detours to explore different options had mixed results. To me (and hopefully others) what is interesting about this little endeavor is that this I am not a Blankenship or near peer level shooter, I'm just a guy that kinda sorta(but really probably not) has this whole precision shooting thing figured out. I may not learn anything "new" but I will have the personal experience of trying.
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Post by Colt711 6/10/2024, 6:06 am

How many of you would be shooting BE if there were no scorings?

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Post by james r chapman 6/10/2024, 8:16 am

Then only dueling would be left!
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Post by LenV 6/10/2024, 9:27 am

We would still get to show off at the range.  lol!
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Post by chiz1180 6/11/2024, 2:12 pm

Colt711 wrote:How many of you would be shooting BE if there were no scorings?

Ron Habegger
This is going to sound incredibly arrogant, but with very few exceptions, if I only cared about score, my shooting progress would stagnate. As I have mentioned previously score is a metric, but not one that I put a lot of thought into. I more care about how well I follow my process. If I focus on score during a match it is really easy to get caught up with what everyone else is doing. 

If I am training, I don't score my targets at all. 

Back to the project update. 

I did shoot a EIC match with the it, I shot fairly well all things considered (have been busy lately) shot above the cut score, don't remember the exact score, it was 260ish i think. I do not think the score would have been any better or worse with the 45. Most importantly it was a fun match. 

Going to be taking a bit of a break from shooting this one for a bit, need to put some of my focus on a few other projects for a week or so.
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Post by Dcforman 6/11/2024, 4:45 pm

I actually scored Chris on that EIC match. I can definitely say that he did not lose any points shooting 9mm vs 45. I was really hoping to call one just out just to give him shit, but alas, not meant to be. I wholeheartedly support his foray into 9mm. Hell, I'd still like to build a bullseye 9mm 2011 someday...

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Post by chiz1180 6/11/2024, 8:22 pm

Dcforman wrote:I actually scored Chris on that EIC match. I can definitely say that he did not lose any points shooting 9mm vs 45. I was really hoping to call one just out just to give him shit, but alas, not meant to be. I wholeheartedly support his foray into 9mm. Hell, I'd still like to build a bullseye 9mm 2011 someday...

Dave
Can confirm, he had the overlay ready. I think really the only "benefit"  on that day, my brass was easy to identify. 

Now that I think about it a bit, the biggest benefit at the moment is the current "novelty" of the 9mm has me training more service pistol than I would other wise. 

I too would like to explore 2011 potential, hell even with a 2011 in 22lr would be crazy fun.
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Post by Colt711 6/12/2024, 6:22 pm

Chiz,

Keepin track of your score during the match is not a good idea...surely the time to be thinkin about what your doin!

Where do you shoot in the Buckeye State? I shot @ Oak Harbor, in fact I was there the night the range opened.... 1968, maybe Sep or Oct.  

They were a great group of guys.  Practice was EVERY Fri evening. We didn't grant excuses for being absent easily! I'm the only one of those there at the start left. Moved to FL in '04. 

Ron Habegger

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Post by chiz1180 6/12/2024, 7:16 pm

Ron,

My base camp is out of Central Ohio, my home club is Lancaster Pistol and Rifle Club. But if their is a match in Ohio and I have the time available, I will shoot there too. The first match I won was at Oak Harbor, First EIC points were at Adams, first Hard Leg was at Canton, first class win was at State Indoor at Warren, Had a great mentor early on out of Cincinnati Revolver Club. Unfortunately not as many active clubs now as in times past.

Back to the 9mm project. Still not sure what I will run at Perry for the service stuff. I am leaning towards the 9mm but I do like my 45 options. I am tempted to run the warm up match all metallic run the 9mm for CF.
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Post by Chase Turner 6/12/2024, 9:39 pm

chiz1180 wrote:...

Back to the 9mm project. Still not sure what I will run at Perry for the service stuff. I am leaning towards the 9mm but I do like my 45 options. I am tempted to run the warm up match all metallic run the 9mm for CF.

Or, you know, you could go old school and shoot metallic for the entire 2700. I tried to last year, but got snaked with the CG search during 22 day, so I don't feel like I got my entire bite at the apple. Hopefully I can get all three guns done this year without anyone drowning in the lake, which is a big win win for all involved.

While I've got some amount of eyesight, I'd like to do it the old way; but also a bit of the Army way. In order to earn a dot sight, a shooter must meet or exceed 870 during a 900 using iron sights. I call this the "870 Challenge," but I'm sure the Army just calls it "work." (No idea if other branches did/do something similar, or what historical practices were across branches, etc.) Regardless of what it is called, there is a bit of wisdom here- a path to inform future progression. Sort of like shooting a 9MM in CF. 

May we all shoot 870+ with irons!

-Chase

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Post by chiz1180 6/13/2024, 7:18 am

Chase,
I shot metallic 22 and 45 in 2022 (shot a dot in CF because I didn't have enough jacketed ammo available, as I loaned some to a friend so they could shoot service events that year), It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot.
I am fairly certain I am going to shoot my "normal guns" for the 2700 as perry is one of the few matches that I can just show up and shoot. I have been known to adjust the plan last minute so who knows. Bottom line though at Perry my plan is to just to the best of my ability at the time and enjoy the match.
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