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Range Officer Groups….. 9mm

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Post by dsj 1/18/2015, 1:39 pm

Thinking of picking one up. So what kind of targets are they making? Hear talk of loads but haven't seen any groups.

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Post by desben 1/19/2015, 9:01 am

American Rifleman tested one in a Ransom Rest with commercial ammo. You can find out about it here: https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t3228-planning-to-purchase-a-9mm-range-officer-or#20706

beeser is now getting good groups out of his, maybe he'll comment or post pictures ;-)
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Post by Bullshooter 1/19/2015, 9:35 am

I bought one last fall and after fitting a Kart NM bushing, did some Ransom rest testing with known accurate 9mm target loads with VV-330 and WSF powders and 115 gr Sierra RN and 115 gr Hornady XTP bullets. The best I could get was 3"-4" at 50 yards with the Sierra RN bullet. Thinking the 1:16 twist of the stock SA barrel might be too fast I also tried the 147 gr Hornady XTP, with terrible results. I now have some 124gr XTP bullets and will be testing those soon, but I have little hope that this 9mm RO will ever make it as a serious Bullseye gun.
Walt Jackson
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Post by DavidR 1/19/2015, 10:23 am

If bullseye target shooting is why you want one then it takes a lot for a 9mm to be accurate at 50 yards, it is not going to happen without a lot of work and money. waste of time imo, shoot the 45 both cf and 45
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Post by Bullshooter 1/19/2015, 10:52 am

+1 on that! IMHO, the cons of a Bullseye 9mm outweigh any pros. Shoot your 9mm for 90 shots and then review your targets and count the points you would have added if the hole was .096" larger. There's virtually no recoil savings either, cause you have to drive those tiny bullets close to 1200 FPS for 50 yard accuracy. You still gotta use a .45 if you're gonna shoot the whole match, so why give up those extra 90 shots of .45 "practice"?
Walt Jackson
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Post by Jon Eulette 1/19/2015, 11:37 am

I think the original post is in regards to a bone stock RO in 9mm. A properly built 9mm is not a fair comparison. The 9 ' s I build for PPC are getting 1" groups at 50 with HOT ammo. Sucks for BE.
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Post by Bullshooter 1/19/2015, 12:09 pm

Jon,
I'm not familiar with PPC rules. Is there an advantage in that game for a 9mm, and/or is the .45 ACP not allowed?
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Post by DavidR 1/19/2015, 12:36 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I think the original post is in regards to a bone stock RO in 9mm. A properly built 9mm is not a fair comparison. The 9 ' s I build for PPC are getting 1" groups at 50 with HOT ammo. Sucks for BE.
Jon

It holds true even more, a stock 9mm RO is worthless as a bullseye gun ,Jon  Your 1'' guns I bet cost what 4 or 5 times what a stock RO goes for?

Now that Might be fun to have if you have the budget for it.
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Post by dsj 1/19/2015, 12:55 pm

dsj wrote:Thinking of picking one up. So what kind of targets are they making? Hear talk of loads but haven't seen any groups.
Thanks for all the input.Think I will stick with my 45, it will hold a inch at 50 (the gun will not me).Sounds like I will be  disappointed  .

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Post by DavidR 1/19/2015, 1:22 pm

In bullseye the best way to better scores is to limit the variable's as much as possible, a good 22 and a good 45, then find the ammo that is accurate and reliable. Then practice!
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Post by CR10X 1/19/2015, 1:50 pm

Don't practice. 

Train. (there is a difference  Shocked )  

See what you need to see, to see an X on the target at the end of the shot.  

Think, before or after, not during. 

But in any event, have fun getting there the way you want to get there.

(Too much time on my hands today and already dryfired twice.)

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Post by DeweyHales 1/19/2015, 4:08 pm

dsj wrote:Thanks for all the input.Think I will stick with my 45, it will hold a inch at 50 (the gun will not me).Sounds like I will be  disappointed  .
What 45 are you shooting that holds an inch at 50 yards?

I'd expect a 45 RO and a 9mm RO to be similarly built. Why do people here feel that one will shoot but the other will not.
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Post by Bullshooter 1/19/2015, 4:38 pm

In my case, it's not a feeling, but rather Ransom rest testing that I've done. They are similarly well built. Both the 9mm and .45 Range Officers I've owned or worked on had reasonably well fitted barrels and good slide to frame fit. All exhibited a loose barrel bushing to slide fit, so before testing I fitted a Kart NM barrel bushing. All except one .45 I tested with handloads known for their accuracy were able to shoot 2.5" groups or better at 50 yards, most closer to the 2" mark. The one .45 RO that I tested with a stock barrel bushing did slightly over 3.5" at 50 yards. As I explained previously, the best I could do with the 9mm RO was 3"-4" with several loads tried. This is not meant to be a condemnation of the Range Officer or the 9mm cartridge, just stating observations. The 9mm RO was never meant to be a 50 yard gun - if it was, it would likely have a slower twist barrel - the 1:32 KKM barrel has proven itself as capable of sub inch 50 yard groups. As Jon has pointed out, when built properly with the right components and fed a properly hot load, the 9mm can really shoot. Just don't expect that gun to have less recoil than a tack-driving .45 wad gun shooting a lead bullet around 700 fps. And from what I've seen, don't expect an out of the box 9mm RO to shoot as well as a stock .45 RO.  The disclaimer I'll add here is that someone may be able to come up with a load that will be a tackdriver in the 9mm RO. Hell, 30 years ago the high power shooters laughed at the idea of an AR-15 being a competitive rifle!
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Post by dsj 1/19/2015, 5:33 pm

DeweyHales wrote:
dsj wrote:Thanks for all the input.Think I will stick with my 45, it will hold a inch at 50 (the gun will not me).Sounds like I will be  disappointed  .
What 45 are you shooting that holds an inch at 50 yards?

I'd expect a 45 RO and a 9mm RO to be similarly built. Why do people here feel that one will shoot but the other will not.
Rock River Wad

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Post by DavidR 1/20/2015, 9:08 am

dsj wrote:
DeweyHales wrote:
dsj wrote:Thanks for all the input.Think I will stick with my 45, it will hold a inch at 50 (the gun will not me).Sounds like I will be  disappointed  .
What 45 are you shooting that holds an inch at 50 yards?

I'd expect a 45 RO and a 9mm RO to be similarly built. Why do people here feel that one will shoot but the other will not.
Rock River Wad

Many good built bullseye guns will shoot under 2'' groups, a kart barrel in your RO will most likely do it too. A rock river, les baer and many other makers of bullseye guns all use a kart barrel so getting good groups are more about the barrels used than the name engraved on the gun.
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