Range Officer Musings

I'll start this off by saying that precision pistol shooting is still new to me. I come from the military/LE line of shooting where X ring at 50 accuracy isn't necessary. Other than an issued Gold Cup wad gun I had over 10 years ago (and never got serious with), this Range Officer is the only 1911 I've had significant trigger time with. Most of my handgun time is and has been behind Berettas, Glocks and SIGs.

Anyway, when I went out in search of a new Range Officer one of the most mentioned items I heard was the slide to frame and barrel to bushing fit. The local cop shop had their ROs on clearance, so I drove over to check them out. Out of four that I looked at, I chose the one with the best felt slide to frame fit since installing a bushing isn't too difficult of a task.

With no reloading components on hand for 45, I bought a box of American Eagle to break the gun in and went to the range with a buddy who is a more accomplished shooter than I am. We went through the box of 100 with 1 stovepipe being the only malfunction but I would attribute that to the ammo. The accuracy wasn't particularly impressive to either of us, but this was factory bulk ammo and we didn't have a rest to shoot from.

When I pulled the gun apart to clean and lube I decided to measure the slide, bushing, and barrel. What I found was a bit surprising to me, as I expected the clearances to be a little less. The barrel OD was .577 and the ID of the bushing was .581, giving .004" clearance. Not having a frame of reference to compare it to other than a couple buddies' USPSA guns that seemed decent for a production gun.





The slide to bushing fit was what raised an eyebrow the most. The old Gold Cup that I had was worked over by the Crane armory and took a bushing wrench and some muscle to disassemble. This RO I could just about spin with a wet kleenex. The slide ID measured .703" while the bushing measured .694". This is a clearance of .009", which seems quite loose to me. I know for a competition gun .001" is ideal, and other stock 1911s I have been able to find figures for online are generally .005-.006. Not seeing a standard "spec" out there for clearance, is this excessive?




I am planning on fitting a bushing for now and then shooting it until my skill level raises. I've finally got top quality components for reloading, so I'll be developing a load after fitting the bushing. After reading a few other comments on the ROs, I thought I would post what I found on mine for general information.

-John

I have a Loaded, and sent it it out for a trigger job and Branden Bunker said decent for a production gun. Mine was .004 also. 

I have since had it barreled and by Dave Sayler and the bushing is very tight requiring effort with a wrench to remove the bushing after about 300 rounds.

The Range Officer is one, if not the best starting point for a wad gun.  Send it to Dave Sayler and have him bring it up to wad gun status.  Dave can also recommend an accurate load for the gun.  You can get into reloading with a single stage press and a few reloading tools.  Once your are reloading and Dave has done his work, the gun should hold X-Ring at 50 yards from a ransom rest.

Hello John, 

There are some more things you should look at while you have your RO apart. Measure the OD of the Slide Stop Pin and then measure the hole that it goes in. Then examine the wear that you see on the slide stop pin, is it where the barrel lugs are or where the link is? Wear should be where the barrel lugs are. 

Would you be willing to say what size groups it held for you and at what distance? 

Dave Sayler, David Sams, KC Crawford or Roddy Toyota would be great choices to have work on your Range Officer if you plan to use it as a wad gun or a personal protection pistol. 

Brian

I just measured my ROs barrels today and both barrels measured .581. Your barrel seems a tad undersized or mine are both bigger than normal. On the subject of re-loading the sooner you start the more you will appreciate it. I would advise skipping the single stage and go straight to a turret type press. Lee makes some kits that make it easy to start and easy on wallet. I went single stage for 30 plus years and now they just sit there till I need to load some big stuff. Here is one of the kits. I have no ownership just showing you the kit.

Len
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Classic-Turret-Press-Kit-Steel-90304-/161735611845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a83195c5

if you want to stay with your SA barrel for a bit the easy thing to do is simply order the right bushing from EGW.. they will cut one for you ID and OD.. takes a couple of weeks to get but they are done right. I have always used their angle bushing.

get a good trigger job and you can shoot it for a while.

The barrel on the RO I bought in 2014 measured 0.581", the slide at 0.700". The bushing had ID/OD of 0.582"/0.699". The bushing, slide stop, trigger, disconnector, sear, sear spring, hammer, and mainspring housing components all got replaced when it was worked over for BE use.

You (nor anyone) are not going to get accurate measurements with a dial caliper, especially of the inside diameter of anything. So don't count on what you're getting.

You could shoot it with a known good load and see what it can do and then decide to take it further with a good gunsmith.

HenryA wrote:You (nor anyone) are not going to get accurate measurements with a dial caliper, especially of the inside diameter of anything. So don't count on what you're getting.

You could shoot it with a known good load and see what it can do and then decide to take it further with a good gunsmith.

HenryA .....You got this one absolutly right !

Deleted

Replace the bushing and I'm betting you will get an immediate step up in accuracy.  A fitted match bushing should never be removable with the fingers; it takes a wrench. And the fit of barrel to bushing is no sloppier than .001.  But fitting it requires taking the lockup angle into account; it's not difficult but it's not trivial either.

Astroimage2002 wrote:Hello John, 

There are some more things you should look at while you have your RO apart. Measure the OD of the Slide Stop Pin and then measure the hole that it goes in. Then examine the wear that you see on the slide stop pin, is it where the barrel lugs are or where the link is? Wear should be where the barrel lugs are. 

Would you be willing to say what size groups it held for you and at what distance? 

Dave Sayler, David Sams, KC Crawford or Roddy Toyota would be great choices to have work on your Range Officer if you plan to use it as a wad gun or a personal protection pistol. 

Brian

With calipers I'm getting about .207" in the barrel link pin hole, and for lack of pin gauges the blank end of a 13/64 drill bit (.203") easily fits in with a little wiggle room. The frame hole is much tighter, and will not accept the blank end of the bit. My calipers say exactly .200" from the left side of the frame. On the slide stop itself, there is uneven wear on the same spots (right/left) of the barrel lugs. It seems overall there is more wear from the link pin in 2 separate places than the lugs. I don't know enough about 1911s to know if this is abnormal or not. There is definitely a good bit of play with the pin inserted directly into the link.

I don't claim to be a target shooter, and my partner is better at pure target shooting than I am. We only shot from 25 yards and he managed to keep everything within 6". Without us being able to do anything other than offhand shooting and without a rest of any kind, I throw those results out though.

Here's a pic of the bottom of the slide stop. I don't know what normal wear should look like, since this only has around 100rds through it.


Top view of the slide stop.



I suppose I should have clarified before, I'm not new to reloading at all, just reloading 45ACP for this 1911. I've done probably 10-15K of 9/40 and several thousand 223, but reloading as accurate as possible for Bullseye is new. I've got an older Lee Turret that has served me well the last several years.

One thing you might want to consider is to get accurate dimensions before ordering a bushing from EGW. I don't know what their policy is if you give them the wrong numbers.  Borrow a good micrometer and measure the OD of the barrel. Inside micrometer for the slide bushing bore. Might be good to stop by a machine shop and ask them to measure it for you. Will be better than paying EGW and waiting to get it only to find it don't fit!
 Over the years I owned many digital calipers mostly Starrett. I don't trust them. I have seen other brands that the Inside measuring edges  are not accurate and something hard to test if you don't have a standard. I have a complete precision machine shop with every type measuring instrument available. Any time I want to get measurements to an accuracy of .005 or less I use micrometers not digital calipers. Even when working to larger tolerance I use micrometers. Only use I have for digital calipers is for quick reference. The caliper is a handy tool to have, measures inside, outside and some measure depth too. But if you want to get accurate measurements a micrometer is better.

I appreciate all the feedback and input. Using a known good Scherr outside micrometer today, I got .580" for the barrel, .197" for the slide stop pin, and .698" for the bushing. The inside mic is MIA, so whenever that reappears I'll have some good numbers for the inside diameters.

The EGW bushing is my first planned mod, and some skateboard tape on the front strap. Next sat, the 27th will be my first match, so I'll be shooting the gun as is for at least that one. The gun definitely won't be holding me back.

Wilson combat sells a checkered metal front strap insert that is held in place by the grips  for 10 bucks that works well, brownells and midway sell them.

Regular_Guy wrote: The inside mic is MIA, so whenever that reappears I'll have some good numbers for the inside diameters.

Inside mics, telescope gauges,  are similar to calipers, in that a different reading can result from human error in holding, positioning, pressure exerted etc.. Gauge pins for the slide ID..
I also notice, that even though the link pin hole of approx. .207, there is considerable contact between the link and the top of the slide stop pin at top dead center from the witness marking..That is a negative factor... strive for zero contact in that area..There are a number of ways to achieve it.. I never exceed .203 and never egg the hole..

Jerry, Would those marks be considered "riding the link"?

james r chapman wrote:Jerry, Would those marks be considered "riding the link"?

Maybe, I don't know  how the lower lugs are  interacting, but regardless, the mark indicates there is substantial pressure from the link as  in passes over center, and more than likely while locked in battery.. a condition that should be avoided..There is no visible witness mark on the right side indicating lower lug contact. The link may be holding it off the pin.. although the fit is now compromised..

Until the bushing is replaced I would do nothing with the slide stop pin and lower lugs.
 As to inside micrometers, telescope gauges, dial bore gauge and small hole ball gauge is far more accurate than any caliper. Furthermore a Brown & Sharpe Intermike accurately will measure a bore to .0001 where as a set of tenths pins will be needed for that. Plus a pin gauge will not tell you if the hole is out of round. I only use pins for holes smaller than 1/8" knowing that if a .124 pin slides in the hole is dam near .125 because a .125 pin will not go into a .125 hole! Nor will a .581 pin fit a .581 hole!
 Since you intend to change the bushing any good machine shop will be able to measure the items to with in .0005. Check out of roundness too so that before putting in the bushing you will have an idea of what needs to be done so that everything fits correctly.

FWIW KC fitted a new Kart barrel and bushing to my Baer 1911 for a very reasonable cost.  Dang thing as it came from Les Baer through Dave Severns was camming on one side.   If you like fooling with such things have at it.  Don't forget that those match barrel and bushings don't come cheap.  A good gunsmith will do it right the first time.  

I've got the document put out by the NGMTU Armorers when they were in Nashville titled, "Accurizing The Service Pistol."  It was prepared for the 40 hour class they offered to State Armorers.  About 10% of it is narrative about doing the job.  The remaining 80% are drawings illustrating the process and detailing special tools.  One of these days I plan to scan it and share it with everyone.

Let me know when you do Ax, I would love to have a copy of that for my records / archives.

Do a Google search. It's online already.

http://accurizing45.blogspot.com/