.32 S&W Future?

Is there any future for .32 S&W in Bullseye or has it been replaced entirely by .32 ACP?

beeser wrote:Is there any future for .32 S&W in Bullseye or has it been replaced entirely by .32 ACP?

I'd ask the question is there any future for either one or are they just a fad?  Honestly I could ask the same question about the 9MM I had built for CF which I decided to go with verses the .32 because of the 1911 platform.  To answer your question I think you will see the .32acp take the lead in the .32 caliber guns.  What it all comes down to in the end is you need to shoot the .45 well.  When you do that there is no need for the 9MM or the .32acp other than the enjoyment/challenge of shooting 3 guns.

- Dave

dronning wrote:

beeser wrote:Is there any future for .32 S&W in Bullseye or has it been replaced entirely by .32 ACP?

I'd ask the question is there any future for either one or are they just a fad?  Honestly I could ask the same question about the 9MM I had built for CF which I decided to go with verses the .32 because of the 1911 platform.  To answer your question I think you will see the .32acp take the lead in the .32 caliber guns.  What it all comes down to in the end is you need to shoot the .45 well.  When you do that there is no need for the 9MM or the .32acp other than the enjoyment/challenge of shooting 3 guns.

- Dave

I'm beginning to realize more and more the truth in what you're saying.  As mentioned before I wish Bullseye required 3 separate calibers in competition.

If someone made a 32acp 1911 I'd shoot it.

-

Never say never...  But...  The 32ACP has been around as a semi auto cartridge for a long time.  The 32 Long guns were special built going around the 32 ACP to get there...  My 32 bore gleam in the eye went away when I embraced the 38 Super.  Doesn't mean I don't own, load for, and shoot a 32 long and I'll most likely add a ACP to the heap of toys one day.

It was my impression that having 3 events; .22, centerfire and .45, made it more difficult.  But after reading dronning's and CR10X's (before being removed) comments my original question may not be worth the effort answering.  Just to be certain I have this correct, assuming that .45 is mastered is there any increased difficulty in having to shoot a lesser caliber centerfire cartridge like .32 ACP?  If not, why bother having a centerfire event?  If everybody is shooting .45 in centerfire isn't it just redundant?

The original bullseye game was designed around an Army qualification course.  At the time, a lot of competitors used revolvers.  Since the 22 and 38 were more pleasant to shoot the 22 and center fire stages were added.  Pre WW2 there weren't many 1911s on the line except for leg matches.  After the war the trend towards auto loading pistols became dominant.  It should be noted that prior to WW2 leg legal 1911s had fixed sights.  

So the center fire portion has devolved to a second 45 event because the match is won or lost in the 45 stage.  IMO, most club matches would be better as 1800s and leave the choice of center fire or 45 up to the individual.  I personally like to shoot my 52 so I'd like to keep the 2700 course for regionals and championships.

I have used 22, 32, 38 & 45 to shoot 2700 matches. If you are on your game the smaller calibers can help scores. If you are a little off your game you will score higher with larger diameter 45 bullets. Having shot 2650+ scores, and having looked over many years of my scores from matches I can see that my scores were consistant from caliber to caliber. In other words when I was shooting really well the cf scores were higher with 32/38. When shooting average performance I would have been better off with 45. My personal best cf is 889 and 890 with 45. I love shooting my 38 for cf; I'm building myself a new one ;p)
So the mouse guns are here to stay because they can provide less recoil, excellent accuracy and FUN!
Jon

Beeser
No stronger advocate for shooting double 45 "existed" than I..( past tense ) But, there is an old saying in the military.." You learn from a recruit." I found as an instructor, that teaching made me better, because it forced me to stay on top of the game..
My prote'ge' has changed my stance on double 45 in her short time in the game.. Being heavily involved in the matches, I watch super HMs shoot .22 / 888s/890s, but fall into the high 870s or low 880s with the .45
Why is that..?? First, the 45 doesn't shoot/group as tightly as a good .22 .. Her Pardini shoots .625/.700 groups..and she has shot low 880s.
Currently impossible with a 45. The 45 is more physically/mentally demanding.. A fatigue factor is always there.. It makes more noise..the recoil factor =s lost points.. The entire line of 45s is very loud..So what..?? The brain rejects loud noise..the brain rejects very sudden movement.. It's a human instinct that cannot be completely suppressed. Much like the fear of falling.. We are born with it.. It's impossible for the brain to completely ignore.. It's there, even though most of us have pushed it deep into the subconscious.
I am not sure that there "is" a difficult mental/physical transition by M/HM shooters from one gun to the next, when applying the fundamentals. If the gun has a decent grip and trigger, one gun is the same as the next when applying the fundamentals.. During my time in PPC we shot 6 different platforms.. Most of us shot them all equally well.
I changed to a Model 52/38 last year.. She immediately started shooting in the 870s .. Her 45 scores actually improved once I upped the trigger on the 52 to 3.5 lbs...The 52 did not fatigue her, at the same rate as the 45.
The 52 shot about the same group at 50, but is easier and fun to shoot..
So, my position is now more open to the 3 gun factor, than it once was..I now believe if a shooter plans and trains carefully, that the CF sub caliber is a distinct advantage.. Especially during a one day 2700 match..

Jon is it a 38 super or 38 special?

Jerry that is exactly what I was thinking. If you could gain 1-2 points from firing a sub 45 in the CF it would be worth it at that high level skill. Be it mental or physically better for the shooter.

Plus shooting 3 different guns for 2700 just makes you a cooler shooter.

Special.
Jon

I just remembered when I was on USAR team Mel Makin (2660 right hand & 2650 left hand) shooting .38 super for cf match. If I remember correctly he never got the desired results. He used compensator at one point. Loud as hell.
Jon

+1 to what Jon and Jerry posted ^

IMHO;
If your goal is to move up in class or be competitive shooting BE 2700, you have to learn to shoot the .45
The .45 is a different animal and is 1/3 or 2/3 of your total score.

I worked hard for a few years to achieve my goal and did, shooting the .22 and .45 only.
The .45 is like work to me, not that I did not mind working to meet a goal, it is part of the process.

When I was in AZ, we would shoot a full 2700 on one day every other weekend and usually a full 2700 practice match on one day on the other weekends.
I shot a lot, but it was the only way to get good enough with the .45.
Also noticed that usually my CF scores shooting the .45 were higher than my 45 scores, so yes the .45 does take it's toll on a person (talking one day 2700's).

I'll be honest and say that I never did shoot the .45 well even with all the work I put into it.
I squeaked into Master, but I made it my goal.

I started shooting my M52 and was shooting better scores and decided to quit shooting the .45 and sold it and just started shooting 1800's.
Reason is that I now had the burden lifted off me and I was having fun shooting the .38
But then a good trade came up and now I have a .45 again

Have taken a step back and focusing on my life and what I want to do shooting and BE related.
Found an almost new condition vintage Gun-Ho 5 gun box and retired the 4 gun Pachmayr and in it is all I need to compete.
Marvel conversion .22, M52 .38, Clark SR. .45, Salyer 92fs and M14-4.
It is all covered from BE to EIC to DR.
Only one goal left for me and that is my service pistol badge.

As for the question;
Shoot what ever you want to shoot for BE, EIC and DR as long as it is legal to do so.
Life is too short to think any different.
As long as there are BE shooters using something other than a .45 for CF, then no, the smaller calibers will not go away.
As for 32 S&W and .32 acp; what ever gun, barrel or load combination shoots best for you.
Have seen great scores from both calibers, never shot either cause I am a .38 kind of guy.

Enough of my rambling.
May the upcoming year be good to you and yours.

Clarence