Les vs. K.C Kustom

by VolScorpion 3/21/2017, 10:15 am

First topic message reminder :

At a crossroads here, do I buy the les baer decided and drop a k.c roll trigger into it? Or do I go ahead, buy the Springfield range officer and have k.c. rebarrel it, put a new bushing on, and drill and tap it for a scope rail? The cost will be about the same, just need to decide what I want

by jmdavis 3/21/2017, 7:16 pm

VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Shoot the heck out of it. Try to wear out a Kart barrel shooting lead. When you do, you will have accomplished something if those were shots that followed your shot plan.

by Chris Miceli 3/21/2017, 7:18 pm

VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

first thing for the RO is ditch the internals of the mainspring housing and put in non ILS parts, next replaced ignition parts with non MIM parts(or get a trigger job and those parts should be replaced). while the gun is getting a scope mount put on get a new bushing fit or a rebarrel.

by VolScorpion 3/21/2017, 7:26 pm

I am getting it rebarreled with a new bushing, along with the battle axe short roll trigger. Just curious of what else needs to be done to make it a 10 ring gun

by Chris Miceli 3/21/2017, 7:28 pm

VolScorpion wrote:I am getting it rebarreled with a new bushing, along with the battle axe short roll trigger. Just curious of what else needs to be done to make it a 10 ring gun

it will be good to go after ^ that work. find a good load and go shoot Xs. Trigger length might be something you want to change.... also checkering if you like checkering.

by Froneck 3/21/2017, 8:36 pm

Re: Les vs. K.C Kustom

by VolScorpion Today at 9:09 pm
So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Learn to shoot great scores, you now have the gun that will!

by Magload 3/21/2017, 9:07 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
Magload wrote:I really like my KC trigger I put in my R1 frame for mt dedicated Nelson 22LR. I also like my LB Wad gun a lot it might not be as good as KC's but the test target is 1.6" and I didn't have to pay the extra $300 for 1 tenth of a inch better, I am really debating on dropping another KC trigger assy in it so both pistols are the same. It is just hard to do it on a gun I paid so much for. The trigger is has is ok it just doesn't roll that I can tell. Don
Fire a thousand or two rounds through that gun and go test it

I am at 2800 rounds already and shoot it at least 4 times a week. I will put in on thr RR and run another test. In benches at the range arn't the best for testing but I can do a comparison to when it was new. Are you saying a LB will wear out fast?

by Chris Miceli 3/21/2017, 9:14 pm

Magload wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:
Magload wrote:I really like my KC trigger I put in my R1 frame for mt dedicated Nelson 22LR. I also like my LB Wad gun a lot it might not be as good as KC's but the test target is 1.6" and I didn't have to pay the extra $300 for 1 tenth of a inch better, I am really debating on dropping another KC trigger assy in it so both pistols are the same. It is just hard to do it on a gun I paid so much for. The trigger is has is ok it just doesn't roll that I can tell. Don
Fire a thousand or two rounds through that gun and go test it
I am at 2800 rounds already and shoot it at least 4 times a week. I will put in on thr RR and run another test. In benches at the range arn't the best for testing but I can do a comparison to when it was new. Are you saying a LB will wear out fast?

some guns keep accuracy better than others.

by SmokinNJokin 3/21/2017, 9:32 pm

One thing I do recommend you do with the RO after KC rebarrels it and after you break it in: Send it to the Springfield Custom shop and have them Armory-Kote it. Not black T, but satin armory kote. It is inexpensive ($250 for the whole gun) and stands up to wear VERY well. I have beat the hell out of Tenifer, Duracoat, Cerakote, Ionbond, Duty Coat, and several other expensive finishes, and prefer the Armory-Kote. For a bullseye shooter, the Armory Kote is the way to go. Grime just wipes off like a teflon pan. Minimal scrubbing. Plus no risk to ruin a beautiful blue finish with grimy fingerprints and scratches. Thats one of the big reasons I'm selling my Gold Cup. The distraction of getting fingerprints all over perfect bluing.

Thats is a worthwhile investment to minimize your maintenance time, plus it looks really good. Wait till after a couple thousand rounds through the gun to do it though.

by Chris Miceli 3/21/2017, 9:51 pm

I'm more of a all go no show kinda guy... scratches fingerprints dings... meh.. as long as it shoots Xs

by SmokinNJokin 3/21/2017, 9:58 pm

Says the guy with a Jon Eulette-rebuilt MCP - one of the better looking 1911's I have ever seen...

by Chris Miceli 3/21/2017, 10:14 pm

SmokinNJokin wrote:Says the guy with a Jon Eulette-rebuilt MCP - one of the better looking 1911's I have ever seen...

you haven't seen the scratches and chips i put in the finish =]

by john bickar 3/21/2017, 10:34 pm

VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Dry fire it a lot
Shoot it a lot
Make Master
Break 2600
Make High Master
Break 2650
Break 2670
Win the National Championship
Break 2680

by VolScorpion 3/21/2017, 10:36 pm

Those are my ultimate goals, I'm starting young so I have time

by MarkOue 3/22/2017, 5:09 am

VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Just tell KC what you desire in your gun and wait.

It would be wise to state your desires or requirements in functional terms rather than try to tell a master what to build. I.E., 1911 for CMP competition, wad gun, CMP gun with removal mount for optics, 185 gr JHP at 800 fps or 200 gr at xxx fps, and so on. He will know exactly how to build, the best parts to use, and so on.

Finally, three decades ago I did a fair amount of service rifle and pistol shooting in the Marines. Because of my volunteer work coaching junior shooters at Quantico I had some access to the precision weapons section ( I think that was the name). I would watch Marines like KC apply their MOS 2112 craft. They were not paid by the gun, rather for perfection of each gun. The Corps had assigned me to I a great MOS where I excelled but how I wished I could have been a Match Armorer!

If you can get KC to build you a match gun do so. He probably is months to a year's wait like most master gunsmiths. Otherwise I have a very good Les Baer NM that I will sell you. I have since waited nearly a year to receive a better "hand built" gun.

That's a lot of babbling. It's worth at least as much as you paid for it.

Shoot well,
Mark

by rich.tullo 3/22/2017, 10:14 am

This is what I would do.

Send RO to KC. Replace the bushing with EGW or whatever KC uses. Install slide rail of machine slide for microdot. Think long and hard about a roll trigger, I like short to medium roll because I am a mortal man and some of these masters have such good trigger feel they won't degrade the roll. Super crisp is NG for me because I will jerk my rapid fire. At then end of the day have him do a trigger job and have him replace the sear and disco. I do not think it would make sense to barrel cause the RO's shoot the Noslers well.

Replacing the barrel is a $500 job or more if you have to replace the ejector and the extractor, another 100. If the gun shoots 3 inch groups with Noslers That will get you to expert not a problem. At our level maybe the right trigger is more important than a gun that holds under 2 inches at 50 yards.

I would shoot the hell out of the gun with Noslers or Zeros then when your scores are above 800 order a Wad gun from KC with the exact specs you want, by saving $500 you have a 1/3 of your downpayment.

by DavidR 3/23/2017, 8:54 am

VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Be prepared to wait a very long time from what i hear, KC has everything on hold because of the eye injury he had a month or so ago. A lot of people bad mouth Les B but ive had great luck with dozens of them, my suggestion if you want to shoot in the near future by the bear and shoot it, then after the season ends send it to KC for a full tuning, you will have 10 times the gun a RO will ever be. A Range officer frame is not even in the same realm as to quality,fit or finish as a baer.

by jmdavis 3/23/2017, 10:23 am

DavidR wrote:
VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?
Be prepared to wait a very long time from what i hear, KC has everything on hold because of the eye injury he had a month or so ago. A lot of people bad mouth Les B but ive had great luck with dozens of them, my suggestion if you want to shoot in the near future by the bear and shoot it, then after the season ends send it to KC for a full tuning, you will have 10 times the gun a RO will ever be. A Range officer frame is not even in the same realm as to quality,fit or finish as a baer.

Wait is currently less than a year. Which isn't bad at all.

I agree that a Les Baer is a better frame (in all likelyhood, and my Curtis uses a Baer frame from 1998) than an SA. But I would also say that a custom Caspian is better than a Les Baer. Then again. my pistols have grips modified by dremels and wood epoxy and I don't care about scratches except the ones that I make after smoking my front sight.

by javaduke 3/23/2017, 10:37 am

john bickar wrote:
VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Dry fire it a lot
Shoot it a lot
Make Master
Break 2600
Make High Master
Break 2650
Break 2670
Win the National Championship
Break 2680

Where's the "Shoot perfect 2700-270x" in your list? Smile

by LenV 3/23/2017, 10:55 am

john bickar wrote:
VolScorpion wrote:So, what else should I do to the RO after I send it to KC?

Dry fire it a lot
Shoot it a lot
Make Master
Break 2600
Make High Master
Break 2650
Break 2670
Win the National Championship
Break 2680

I hate to be a nitpicker but you can't break 2600 or 2680 with that RO no matter who builds it. Just won't happen. They won't let you shoot 45 in the .22 match. Laughing

Hmm, I suppose you could add a Nelson to the mix. Laughing

by SW-52 3/23/2017, 11:11 am

i know the RO is not a Supercustom Handmade gun,but for the price and features,is the great option for the money. my pistol is in process to build a Wadgun. i think the practice and perfection in any practice is more than a pistol brand. if you want a supermegawadcutter pistol,contact to kc's to a wadgun build in kc's slides and frames. les baer have great reviews,les baers,old colts,rock river,joe chambers,curtis and others great gunsmith builds.

by Barco 5/29/2023, 12:54 pm

KC got my Model 41 running flawlessly very grateful to him as the gun is now a pleasure to shoot.

by SW-52 5/29/2023, 3:14 pm

Barco wrote:KC got my Model 41 running flawlessly very grateful to him as the gun is now a pleasure to shoot.

KC is a High Master in Model 41, Kart Conversions and build nice wadguns, Great Guy!

by Orion 5/29/2023, 5:02 pm

Magload wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:
Magload wrote:I really like my KC trigger I put in my R1 frame for mt dedicated Nelson 22LR. I also like my LB Wad gun a lot it might not be as good as KC's but the test target is 1.6" and I didn't have to pay the extra $300 for 1 tenth of a inch better, I am really debating on dropping another KC trigger assy in it so both pistols are the same. It is just hard to do it on a gun I paid so much for. The trigger is has is ok it just doesn't roll that I can tell. Don
Fire a thousand or two rounds through that gun and go test it
I am at 2800 rounds already and shoot it at least 4 times a week. I will put in on thr RR and run another test. In benches at the range arn't the best for testing but I can do a comparison to when it was new. Are you saying a LB will wear out fast?

Les Baers don’t wear out fast… I have two LBC, built in 2010 that still group <2” at 50. KC did some minor work on one of them. My newer LBC groups at 1.5” at 50. My dad has two LBC from 1991 that group just fine at 50, but needs some trigger work.

I bought an RO from KC who sent it to Dave Salyer. I thought KC said he didn’t do work on ROs anymore? I’d recommend Dave for his work on the RO though. My 9mm RO and M9A4 hold the x ring at 50 just fine.

by LenV 5/29/2023, 7:01 pm

SW-52 wrote:
Barco wrote:KC got my Model 41 running flawlessly very grateful to him as the gun is now a pleasure to shoot.
KC is a Expert in Model 41, Kart Conversions and build nice wadguns, Great Guy!

Expert? Really? Since we're talking Bullseye (precision pistol) wouldn't High Master gunsmith be a lot closer? Shocked

by SW-52 5/29/2023, 7:07 pm

LenV wrote:
SW-52 wrote:
Barco wrote:KC got my Model 41 running flawlessly very grateful to him as the gun is now a pleasure to shoot.
KC is a Expert in Model 41, Kart Conversions and build nice wadguns, Great Guy!
Expert? Really? Since we're talking Bullseye (precision pistol) wouldn't High Master gunsmith be a lot closer?

You have reason, Kc is a High Máster!!

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