bullet and pwd charge for 9 mm

First topic message reminder :

List: thinking of converting 38 tool head to 9mm...
What is a popular bullet and charge for this caliber? 

arh

I have found that in a Kart 1-16 that velocity is not nearly as critical as COAL and Crimp. I use 4.9 N330 with XTP 115.
That gives me 1100 fps. I have had very good luck with a powder that is very close to N340. 5.2 gives me 1215fps. Both are sub inch loads. For the long line I use new Lapua or JAG brass. As Jim has stated for crimp, just take the bell out. With my chamber, the magic number is 1.120 . If I go shorter the groups start to open up.

Russ

RThatcher wrote:I have found that in a Kart 1-16 that velocity is not nearly as critical as COAL and Crimp. I use 4.9 N330 with XTP 115.
That gives me 1100 fps. I have had very good luck with a powder that is very close to N340. 5.2 gives me 1215fps. Both are sub inch loads. For the long line I use new Lapua or JAG brass. As Jim has stated for crimp, just take the bell out. With my chamber, the magic number is 1.120 . If I go shorter the groups start to open up.

Russ

DITTO, COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER. MY OAL IS 1.142 TAKEN RIGHT FROM THE VV MANUAL. JP

Sorry for resurrecting an old post here, but hoping JIMPGOV is still active. Curious as to what dies you're using for the 9mm 115 gr XTP loads. Bought a RRA 1911 9mm that had an impressive group on the test target using your loads. Having trouble getting those same groups replicating your load (5.0 gr VV330, new starline brass, Fed GMM, 1.142" oal). From a ransom rest at 50 yds groups are awful (4" plus). I'm using a Dillon square deal B and wondering if that's part of the problem. I have no issue making accurate .45 ammo on this same press, but really struggling with 9mm. Looking to set up a press that takes standard dies and wondering what you recommend. Thanks, Chris

I really appreciate the effort you have put into the testing and thanks for sharing. Have you tried any of the RMR 115 MW bullets?  RMR is my favorite vendor and I have had very good accuracy from that bullet but have never used the XTP’s.

YES , I'M STILL AROUND. I USE THE DILLON DIES ON A DILLON RL1050. BUT I DO NOT USE A CRIMPING DIE. I CRIMP USING A SIZING DIE. I DON'T RESIZE THE ENTIRE CASE, JUST THE TOP 1/16 TO1/8"  OF THE TOP OF THE CASE. ONLY ENOUGH TO REMOVE THE FLARE FROM THE SEATING STAGE. WITH MY MICROMETER IT MEASURES .377. SO REALLY NOT A TRUE CRIMP. IT DOESN'T DEFORM THE BULLET AT ALL.

RMR BULLETS ARE REALLY PLINKERS AT BEST. 25YDS THEIR OK. 50YDS THEY ARE NOT BULLSEYE ACCURATE. THEY WOULD BE FINE FOR THE RUN&GUN GUYS.

Thanks Jim! Really scratching my head on the RRA 1911 9mm accuracy issues. I'm following the recipe you gave me in 2019 at Perry, also listed in this post. The only difference is I'm using a dillon square deal B dies and using thier die for the taper crimp. I'm only removing the flare and crimp measures .377".
I'm going to try to get my hands on some factory ammo from Atlanta arms and see what kind of groups I get. Also setting up a dillon 550 and going to be ordering dies.

Hello,

I know this is an old thread, so apologies for the resurrection. However, I wanted to include a data point for anyone who finds this thread and is doing research on 9MM loads.

Jim's load for the 147 XTP is an excellent, soft shooting load:



10 shot group using a Colt 9MM barrel, from a barrel test fixture, at 50 yards.

Average velocity was 939 FPS. SD was 10.

Give the 147 XTP with Jim's recommendation of WSF a try- you may end up liking it.

Thanks,
Chase

Chase: good data.  Ransom International has been running a lot of videos on their YouTube channel of various 9mm pistols in their rests.  In variably the 147 grain factory loads have been consistently the number 1 or 2 most accurate loads in many different guns.  

So for all people trying to use a 9mm in Bullseye, try a 147 grain bullet loaded appropriately.

Chase Turner wrote:Hello,

I know this is an old thread, so apologies for the resurrection. However, I wanted to include a data point for anyone who finds this thread and is doing research on 9MM loads.

Jim's load for the 147 XTP is an excellent, soft shooting load:



10 shot group using a Colt 9MM barrel, from a barrel test fixture, at 50 yards.

Average velocity was 939 FPS. SD was 10.

Give the 147 XTP with Jim's recommendation of WSF a try- you may end up liking it.

Thanks,
Chase

I wonder if the sub 1000 fps accuracy is attributed to the bullets heavier weight; 147 vs 115?
Jon

THE 147GR HORNADY XTP BULLET IS A BOAT TAIL.

JIMPGOV wrote:THE 147GR HORNADY XTP BULLET IS A BOAT TAIL.

Meaning?????
Jon

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge/what-is-a-boat-tail-bullet/

JIM I know what a boat tail bullet is LOL. Are you implying its more accurate at lower velocities because it's a boat tail?

I personally would consider it a longer bevel base (based on XTP photo) instead of a boat tail bullet; unless you've measured the/a taper of the ogive?

Jon

I believe the boat tail is to alleviate breech pressure by reducing the amount of length in contact with the bore.  Boat tails have an advantage in the accuracy department by having a better exit at the muzzle.  Seldom are there burrs generated from rifling hanging out there so fewer if ever bullet deflections.  You’ll only get an argument on this from a benchrester, everyone else shoots boat tails.

What is the twist rate of a Colt 9mm barrel? I've seen good results with the 147 JHP in 1:10 barrels (Sig, CZ, my re-barreled 1911 SA RO), but mixed results in 1:16 and 1:32. The 147 XTP groups a little better than the Magnus or Zero, but they are pricey!

I'VE FOUND THE 147GR WILL KEYHOLE AT 25YDS WHEN SHOT FROM A 1/32 BARREL. JP

It's either 1:16 or 1:18.75 twist, according to this comment. I'm not in a position to measure it properly, but my MK1 eyeball thinks it is 1:16 as the twist seems consistent with other 1:16 barrels I have.

A 147 won't work very well in a 1:32 barrel.

Thanks,
Chase

Wobbley wrote:I believe the boat tail is to alleviate breech pressure by reducing the amount of length in contact with the bore.  Boat tails have an advantage in the accuracy department by having a better exit at the muzzle.  Seldom are there burrs generated from rifling hanging out there so fewer if ever bullet deflections.  You’ll only get an argument on this from a benchrester, everyone else shoots boat tails.

Another possible reason for a boat tail with heavy bullets a 9mm is to prevent the base of the bullet from bulging the case. Long bullets seat deep, and the deeper you go in the case, the thicker the case wall becomes. If the bullets bulge the brass too much, they won't fit in the chamber.  

Magtech 147s have a boat tail, too, as do most 158 grain 9mm bullets.

All depends on the twist. I have a Jarvis barrel on my Q5 , it is 1:10 It seems to hate 147's and I tried Brazos cast, 147 and 125 SWC no good. 

I like RMR match winners, I load them about the same as HAP but a little shorter . I load the 125s although 147's shot good but my chamber is short , almost like a CZ. So for safety I do not shoot 147's. because I do not want to mess with 9mm and high pressure and I only have CFE and W321 for 9mm

CFE is a slow powder, and only accurate at high end loads.  CFE is excellent for accuracy with 147 and 4.0gn. 

5.0 gm CFE under a 125gn is laser accurate at 25 yards though it is snappy equivalent to factory ammo. It will hold the xring. 

4.3 W321 is accurate, though not as good as CFE  with the same bullet and less snappy.

Great to see this 9mm discussion, I'm putting a S&W 986 (9mm revolver) together with a Lothar Walther .355 barrel. Twist is 9.8" and 6-1/8" long. What I really like about this forum is I see testing a 50 yards! Don't know how many Internet searches for 9mm revolver accuracy come up with pictures of "7 and 10 yard groups"?

Just rec'd some Hornady 115 HAP, 124 XTP and 147 XTP .355 bullets to load.  The revolver doesn't like lead bullets and was surprised that the Federal Syntech 150 flat point bullets did well at 50 yards...only had a few to try. Low recoil and no smoke!  

Initial function/testing was with a red dot rested. Finishing up the action, underlug, yoke lock etc this week.  Have the cylinder gap at .004, as noted by Starline their 9mm brass sticks in the 986 titanium cylinder so I'm using Federal yellow brass for now.