Hi-Tek Versus Traditional Wax Lube

I'm curious what your experiences are comparing the two. Accuracy, leading, reloading ease, barrel wear...

Honestly my only experience with coated bullets was some 38 super bullets I tried from Missouri bullet Co. I didn't have great accuracy out of that pistol with anything but noticed what I though was an unpleasant odor when shooting from I guess the coating either burning or just getting hot. 

I do like the idea of less buildup on the dies and possibly less leading of the bore.

I tried the coated and absolutely hate them now.  They are accurate but honestly I don’t want to re develop my load for them.  For some crazy reason my pistol likes to “act up” when I use them.  Can’t explain why and don’t care anymore!  I wanted very bad to use them but the issues were driving me nuts.  I may play with them again but for now I’m staying old school.  I actually started tumble lubing like you do and am very happy with it.  Put a tumble lubed and a coated bullet in your hand and for me the tumble bullet is lots slicker.

Yesterday I was doing rapid drill with all my pistols.  I decided to try the tumble and coated in the drills...100+ rounds each.  Not a single jam or alibi with tumble coated and with coated alibi with every mag.  And yes the coated was 2 tenths hotter to compensate for the coated as I was told that was common.  I have zero idea why it happens but it does.  A good friend said why mess with a good thing!  Sure coated would make my process a little cleaner but hey, I gotta clean my guns so what the hell..I’ll clean my dies too..haha. I suspect why might be the issue but again it’s suspect. Won’t say a thing until I could confirm it.

Enjoy the madness buddy

My issue with tumble lubed is that they have to be lubed and sized before tumble lubing. That means that they have to be washed in solvent to remove the old lube as well.

jmdavis wrote:My issue with tumble lubed is that they have to be lubed and sized before tumble lubing. That means that they have to be washed in solvent to remove the old lube as well.

Why is that? I tumble lube the bullets I cast. I use Lee push through sizing dies. I usually put a bit of tumble lube on the bullets prior to sizing to make it easier but isn't necessary. You can size raw bullets then tumble lube.

jmdavis wrote:My issue with tumble lubed is that they have to be lubed and sized before tumble lubing. That means that they have to be washed in solvent to remove the old lube as well.

That’s why I use unsized and un lubed bullets.  If already lubed why take the old lube off?  I also cast my own so not an issue.  I have a ton of already traditional lubed bullets and that’s how they will go down range.

lablover wrote:

jmdavis wrote:My issue with tumble lubed is that they have to be lubed and sized before tumble lubing. That means that they have to be washed in solvent to remove the old lube as well.

That’s why I use unsized and un lubed bullets.  If already lubed why take the old lube off?  I also cast my own so not an issue.  I have a ton of already traditional lubed bullets and that’s how they will go down range.

Tumble lubed means in general less leading and better results in my gun.

My experience with coated bullets has been great. They shoot to the same point of impact and accuracy as traditional cast bullets. Your gun, reloading equipment and hands are cleaner. There's less smoke and they also feed smoother. I can feel it when loading the first round. 


Scott

A multi-times National champion told me that he can shoot coated all day, but as soon as he uses waxed/lubed, his .45 starts to malfunction.  Both lubed and coated work fine in my .45 and I get about the same 25 yard accuracy with both.  I find reloading to be easier with coated in terms of not gumming up the seating die or crimp die.  Years ago I got shaving with both lubed and coated, but when I switched to two step expander, that problem was solved.  A fellow shooter says he doesn't like the smell produced with shooting coated.  I shoot lubed because I currently have a large supply of them.

I should add that I also tumble lube because I have some bullets that use a VERY soft sticky lube that makes a mess in the summer. On the other hand, once Xlox hardens, I don't deal with that mess or the chance of lube migration into the powder and the process of selecting, cleaning, and tumble lubing means more opportunity to cull out bad bullets. 

I've shot less than 2k of 45 this year due to family issues, but I plan to up my use soon.

joy2shoot wrote:A multi-times National champion told me that he can shoot coated all day, but as soon as he uses waxed/lubed, his .45 starts to malfunction.

I find this hard to believe. The lubed portion of the bullet is inside the case. Very bizarre?
Jon

Jon Eulette wrote:

joy2shoot wrote:A multi-times National champion told me that he can shoot coated all day, but as soon as he uses waxed/lubed, his .45 starts to malfunction.

I find this hard to believe. The lubed portion of the bullet is inside the case. Very bizarre?
Jon

Yep, those ‘ol heel based lubed .45 Russian rounds carried all that lube outside just like those nasty .22’s!

james r chapman wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:

joy2shoot wrote:A multi-times National champion told me that he can shoot coated all day, but as soon as he uses waxed/lubed, his .45 starts to malfunction.

I find this hard to believe. The lubed portion of the bullet is inside the case. Very bizarre?
Jon

Yep, those ‘ol heel based lubed .45 Russian rounds carried all that lube outside just like those nasty .22’s!

That's way Beyond me Jim
I'm just a bull's eye shooter :-)
Jon

maybe useful information here;
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

S148 wrote:maybe useful information here;
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2017/3/7/coated-bullets-the-future-of-lead-bullets-for-handloaders/

Interesting article. They obviously got better results from the coated bullets however their "1911 style" pistol from a Ransom Rest at just 25 yards got pitiful results.

Jon Eulette wrote:
I find this hard to believe.

I am sorry you find it hard to believe, but I heard it first hand.

joy2shoot wrote:

Jon Eulette wrote:
I find this hard to believe.

I am sorry you find it hard to believe, but I heard it first hand.

Based on all my years of shooting cast bullets with various lubes I've just never heard of that or experienced it. I believe you, but I am really surprised as a former high level shooter and pistolsmith.
Jon

Greetings,

I have noted about a dozen postings with no empirical data.

So, I will jump in with a real test target fired at 50 yards via the barrel tester.

The barrel is a Colt 38 Special Kit with 0.354" groove diameter.

The bullets are cast from an RCBS DEWC 140 grain mould.

The bullets were coated and later sized to 0.358".

They stink when fired. I would love to read an MSDS sheet about the hazards of the coating material.

I only tested the ammo. It was loaded by another shooter.

Cheers,

Dave

Coating aside, that's a lot better than I would have expected from any DEWC at 50 yards.

Really surprised to see a .358 solid cast bullet group from .354 barrel. Wow. I've not had that success in my 38's.
Jon

fc60 wrote:They stink when fired. I would love to read an MSDS sheet about the hazards of the coating material.

Doesn't seem to be something you can find online.

So, do you believe the marketing?
Ammunition with a “Hi-Tek Supercoat” coating produces higher speeds, won’t jam your dies and can be used indoor without any problems. The coating does not release any toxic gases or particulates during the firing process. The coating is absolutely non-abrasive and contains no PTFE or MOLY. The end result prolongs your barrel and leaves you with a cleaner gun.

https://xmetaltargets.com/product/hi-tek-supercoat-powder/

I've been using them for years in 9mm .40, and .45acp and pretty much gave up barrel cleaning. I just wipe off the feed ramp, breech face, and back of barrel that contacts the breech face, and never touch the bore any more.

My nose must not be as sensitive as others, or I'm just used to it.

Keep in mind that not all "coated" bullets are "Hi-Tek" coated. There are various coatings including powder paint coatings from Harbor Freight.

I tried some Moly coated bullets in .40 and .45 and thought I'd never get the barrel cleaned out again...

I’m pretty sure Brazos has sample packs for each of us to form an educated hands on opinion. Feel free to post results.

I'd love to know what caused two out of 10 ring shots.  Dave's testing protocol is impeccable, so it must of been something with variations during loading.

Does anyone know trajectory of 38 DEWC out to 25 and 50 yards? 

AP

PhotoEscape wrote:I'd love to know what caused two out of 10 ring shots.  Dave's testing protocol is impeccable, so it must of been something with variations during loading.

Does anyone know trajectory of 38 DEWC out to 25 and 50 yards? 

AP

Maybe that's how that barrel shoots that ammo.  That's what the target says.

Ammunition is under no obligation to meet our expectations or assumptions.

One could extend your question to ask why those shots in the 10 ring were not in the X ring. Was that also caused by something with variations during load?  See what I'm saying? The target is the data. But it's only one target. Another target with the same ammo would almost certainly produce a different result, and it's anybody's guess what that result would be. Larger? Smaller?

S148 wrote:

PhotoEscape wrote:I'd love to know what caused two out of 10 ring shots.  Dave's testing protocol is impeccable, so it must of been something with variations during loading.

Does anyone know trajectory of 38 DEWC out to 25 and 50 yards? 

AP

Maybe that's how that barrel shoots that ammo.  That's what the target says.

Ammunition is under no obligation to meet our expectations or assumptions.

One could extend your question to ask why those shots in the 10 ring were not in the X ring. Was that also caused by something with variations during load?  See what I'm saying? The target is the data. But it's only one target. Another target with the same ammo would almost certainly produce a different result, and it's anybody's guess what that result would be. Larger? Smaller?

I respectfully disagree with your approach to answering my questions.  As Mr. Wilson stated verbatim: "I have noted about a dozen postings with no empirical data." in his post, your answer falls in the same category.  Mr. Wilson provided factual target, and supplemented it with chronograph data.  As such we have something tangible to analyze, although we can only make assumptions in answering my first question.  Very specifically chrono data shows relatively low Standard Deviation number - 13.7, yet Extreme Spread is 53.1.  With average velocity being 696.4 we have couple of stand out shuts to either + and - direction, specifically 720.7 & 711.6 (+), and 667.6 & 673.3 (-).  However my second question has no relationship to any particular barrel.  It is well known fact that each caliber has its own trajectory, with same pattern exhibited regardless of the barrel shut was fired from.  Very specifically projectile will rise first and then arch down.  Leaving a side variables like shape of the projectile, and all others but velocity, I'm interested to learn in what phase round in question finds itself at 50Y mark, is it still rising or already descending.  That is the nature of my second question about trajectory of 38WC round.  Since trajectory is a function of velocity, and correlating with the fact that we adjust our dots down when changing from 50Y to 25Y, I tend to think that all our rounds are on descend at 50Y.  Hence my assumption would be that two rounds in question would be those of the lowest recorded velocities. 

I'm interested to learn what you think of my analyses above.

AP