32 SWL at 50 Yds vs. 32 ACP at 50 Yds

First topic message reminder :

Does anyone have data, target photos or current experience evidencing small groupings with either 32 SWL or 32 ACP at 50 yds?  In particular using cast bullets vs. copper plated?  Also curious if anyone is having better luck with DEWC or BBWC vs. conventional HBWC in the 32 SWL? And finally, has anyone tried to get good results with 32 SW loads (not SWL) with round-nose bullets shot through a 32 SWL barrel?  It seems like a 32 SW load could be loaded very similar to a 32 ACP load in terms of charge, with a round nose bullet similar to 32 ACP.  For example, would a 32 SW loaded with 1.7 gr Bullseye and a Hornady 60 XTP give similar results to .32 ACP loaded same (the latter reported to be a hihgly capable (and expensive) load in the Pardini .32 ACP version)?

Dr.Don wrote:The European shooters can still get the very fine H&N bullets.  Their gun market is probably mostly European anyway.  Also, while I like the 60XTP, the newer 85XTP actually groups tighter in my gun.

Ok, that’s good news on the 85xtp

Dr.Don wrote:The European shooters can still get the very fine H&N bullets.  Their gun market is probably mostly European anyway.  Also, while I like the 60XTP, the newer 85XTP actually groups tighter in my gun.

+1 
I too found the (32acp) 85gr XTP's shoot tighter groups at 50 yards. Might even try the 100gr bullet.
I use the 78gr LRN for 25 T&R due to cost.

Wes Lorenz wrote:

Dr.Don wrote:The European shooters can still get the very fine H&N bullets.  Their gun market is probably mostly European anyway.  Also, while I like the 60XTP, the newer 85XTP actually groups tighter in my gun.

+1 
I too found 85gr XTP's shoot tighter groups at 50 yards. Might even try the 100gr bullet.
I use the 78gr LRN for 25 T&R due to cost.

Is this with the ACP.

I am going to get some 85’s myself

All this 32 acp talk.  Curious how Hornady factory 32 acp shoots?  And is the brass after the fact worth a hoot

lablover wrote:All this 32 acp talk.  Curious how Hornady factory 32 acp shoots?  And is the brass after the fact worth a hoot

Greetings,

The Hornady 60 XTP factory ammo I have tested will shoot ten-ring at 50 yards with a Pardini barrel mounted in a barrel tester.

Like all commercial ammo, some lots shoot better than others.

The brass is okay, the early stuff had thinner case walls than the newer ammo I bought at the local gun shop.

Cheers,

Dave

I'm glad I read this thread and Dr Don's post on the 85 gr. XTP testing, looks like there's no need to panic when I shoot through my supply of 60 gr XTPs! Lets all hope they stay the course on manufacturing the 85 gr XTP it would be sad if they dropped it in the future, my Pardini just doesn't shoot the lead bullets on the long line, short line yes but long line testing has been disappointing! I've spent lots of time creating several oversize custom case expanders to no avail. I still can't fathom why the .311  XTP shoots in my .3125 bore (I slugged it) so well on the long line and the .314 lead and PC lead bullets don't come close to the 60 gr XTPS. It defies logic but it works! It's Crazy! 

CraigB5940 wrote:I'm glad I read this thread and Dr Don's post on the 85 gr. XTP testing, looks like there's no need to panic when I shoot through my supply of 60 gr XTPs! Lets all hope they stay the course on manufacturing the 85 gr XTP it would be sad if they dropped it in the future, my Pardini just doesn't shoot the lead bullets on the long line, short line yes but long line testing has been disappointing! I've spent lots of time creating several oversize custom case expanders to no avail. I still can't fathom why the .311  XTP shoots in my .3125 bore (I slugged it) so well on the long line and the .314 lead and PC lead bullets don't come close to the 60 gr XTPS. It defies logic but it works! It's Crazy! 

Greetings,

The Hornady 85 XTP measure 0.312" while the 60 XTP measure 0.311". One reason I tried the 85's.

Your barrel "slugs" at 0.3125" most likely due to you having a newer barrel with choke applied at the muzzle. The barrels actually gauge at 0.314" at the breech end.

I agree that is is strange why under size jacketed bullets do well in the Pardini barrels.

Cheers,

Dave

Hello,

Wondering how you are shooting 32 ACPs. Are you able to use the 32 S&W magazine as is or a modification required?

Thank you

So moving forward, would the 85s be the better choice?  If someone was going to just load jacketed for the time being what die suggestions?  I find this 32 acp fascinating

These are posts I read on Target Talk back in 2018, I found them useful:


TT post on 32 acp loading machine tips

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t3997p25-reloading-for-32-acp

 

TT info on 32 ACP loading:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42516

This is the info Alex C at Pardini USA gave me in August of 2018 when I got my 32 ACL conversion kit, it has worked well for me and my lee carbide three die set with a redding 32 ACP taper crimp die used for the crimp, I use the lee combination seating and crimping die to seat the bullet but apply no crimp:


Hornady/Frontier brass

Winchester small pistol primer

Hornady 60gr XTP bullet

1.8gr VHIT N-310

C.O.L.: .894”

Crimp .330” – important

Note: I'm using Starline brass and CCI SP primers instead of the info above.


Also Alex C. at Pardini USA told me via email today that they did not have any shooters reporting loads for the 85 gr XTP bullet, I sent him the URL for the excellent test Dr. Don did with the photos of the groups. This drop of the 60 gr XTP was a surprise!

Gustavo,
The Pardini 32acp conversion for the SP, or the Pardini HP in 32acp, comes with magazines for the 32acp.  I don't know whether they are the same as the 32 SWL magazines.  I'm not sure exactly what you were asking, but just to be clear, we are not shooting 32acp in a 32 SWL gun.

Greetings,

Accurate Powders list loads for the 32 ACP using the 85 XTP bullet.

The powders tested were Accurate #2 and Accurate #5.

I recorded the velocities of both powders and when experimenting with VV N310, similar in burn rate to #2, I kept my velocities to match the Accurate #2 load.

Most of the "wildcat" loads we use have no documented test data. We are working without a net.

Cheers,

Dave

Wow I wasn’t aware that Hornady dropped to 60 grain XTP! 
Who has 10000 for sale? Lol

Greetings,

I just looked at the Hornady webpage and the 60 grain bullet is not listed.

I did write to Hornady to verify.

Cheers,

Dave

Should one panic?  Or just order the 85s

Gustavo1957 wrote:Hello,

Wondering how you are shooting 32 ACPs. Are you able to use the 32 S&W magazine as is or a modification required?

Thank you

Some of my 32 l mags work with ACP, other have feeding issues.

James Hensler wrote:Wow I wasn’t aware that Hornady dropped to 60 grain XTP! 
Who has 10000 for sale? Lol

I know a local guy just ordered 6k...he needs to order more!

Dave, 

How did the Accurrate #2 and #5 loads hold the X ring at 50 yds in your testing? I saw those listings last night for the 85 gr XTP in my lee manual last night.

Regards,

Craig

Does anyone know a dealer in Europe that sells the H&N .32 SWL bullets?  I travel to EU frequently.  If I could find someone who sold them I'd find a way to get them back here.  

Finally, does anyone want to share experience using (1) the double-ended wadcutter (DEWC) vs. the HBWC, or any other novel approach?

Greetings,

Here is a link to dealers for H&N bullets...

https://www.hn-sport.de/en/store-locator

You want the 0.312" 100 grain Match Greased for 0.311 and smaller barrels.

https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/wc-hb-312-100-gr-l

Look for the 0.314" 100 grain Match Greased for 0.314" barrels.

https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/wc-hb-314-100-gr-l

When I bought them via Canada, 2,000 pieces came in eight boxes packed in a heavy cardboard case.

Cheers,

Dave

"... does anyone want to share experience using (1) the double-ended wadcutter (DEWC) vs. the HBWC, or any other novel approach?"  

I always wanted a Walther GSP in both .22 LR and .32 S&W-L, so I bought one.  I may someday try double-ended wadcutters (DEWC), and I bought a mold, but the results I saw here are unequivocal.  I have now shot a lot of European .32 S&W-L from S&B, Fiocchi and other hollow base wadcutters (HBWC), and they all worked.  I did find a few thousand H&N HBWC, and bought them.  I read of the swaging tool from Larry Blackmon, to convert Speer Plinkers into something close to the H&N HBWC, so I bought the swager, and used it a lot.  I bought a Dillon 650 progressive just for this project.  

Resign yourself to probably having to buy several size dies, expanders, and other tools to deal with variations in brass and other components.  

Lots of brass does not work with .32 HBWC bullets.  The tube of the case starts to get thick for the web of the case too soon, so when you expand the case, you get a belt forming on the outside of the case.  I as told here that Lapua was really good, as is Fiocchi.  I tried S&B with good results, most of the time.  Star Line will not work.  You may be able to load once fired cases without sizing (I could not), but if you do size, get one of the oversize sizers that Lee sells.  The Dillon sizer will size them way more than you want.  The Lee oversize sizer I have I believe is 1-oversize, intended to leave the case outside diameter at .333-.334".  This has worked for me with Lapua and S&B brass that I am using, leaving the inside diameter about where I want it.  I believe Lee has two more larger oversize case size dies.  I may get a 2-oversize, and see if the I.D. is still not too large.  

Until recently, I shot and loaded 9mm, .40, .45 and .357, and tried for hard bullets when I cast them to keep them from being swaged down by a tight case, and I wanted lots of neck tension to keep the bullet from being set back on feeding.  That worked fine at 50 feet, but I was advised it would not work at 50 yards.  I was advised that for Bullseye work, I wanted soft bullets, and cases expanded such that I could thumb the bullet most of the way down in the case.  Some quotes from Jerry Keefer mostly about loading .38 Special HBWC that I recorded:  

"one of the secrets to lead, is to form the brass to accept 90% of the bullet with only mild finger pressure.. The long 38 Hollow base wad cutters are approx. .580 long..Here I am loading PENN double end solids, which are approx .525",  All but about .050 should slide into the case with ease.  No force..to prevent sizing the bullet down below bore diameter.  The only dies I ever saw designed specifically for the long 38 wad cutters were the now extinct CH Auto Champ. This Dillion punch is custom ground.." 

"pull several of your loaded rounds and mic them.. Usually, they will be small, even on the 45.." 

"Remember, have the punch ground so there is enough adjustment to control the depth..Stop the forming so about .025/.030 of the bullet cannot be pushed in by hand.. This will prevent unwanted movement or set back during seating and or recoil.." 

Photoescape makes an expander/powder funnel that delivers powder into a case, sized to do this with the roughly .3145" re-swaged Plinker.  
http://www.photoescapeinc.com/products/powder-funnel-wadcutter32.html
FC60's testing said the right powder charge was 1.7 grains of Bullseye.  Caution:  if you use new brass with this expander/powder funnel, you will have to lube the inside of the case with a spray-on/drying case lube, or your Dillon press shell holder will pull the rim off your cases (ask me how I know).  Also, I had one instance of powder bridging in the area below the funnel, which I would not have caught if I did not have LOTS of task lighting.  Look in every case to make sure you have not too little and not too much powder.  

With a USMC Coach on top of me once, I shot an Expert score at Camp Perry once.  By myself, I'm not that good.  My handloads shoot as well for me off a rest as the European factory HBWC.  

Some links:  
http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2010/05/loading-32-s-long.html  
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t11463-whats-your-32-sw-long-load-using-hn-314-wadcutters-or-bumped-speer-clones  
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t6926-huge-fliers-with-32long-reloads
https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t9916-sw-32long-copying-the-hn-314-hbwc-for-reloading