38 Super Centerfire Gun

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38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:15 pm

Who wants to own up to shooting a 38 Super in the centerfire match?   I have one Dan Norwood built for me back in the 90s.  Pre Series 70 commercial Colt with a Kart barrel.  Load it like a 38 Auto.  Best I remember it was an inside the X ring 50 yard gun.   Haven't fooled with mine in 15 years.  Just about to drag it out and play with it some more.  I'll post loads when I get it working..

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Larry Lang on Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:22 pm

Good luck with the .38S. Mid-range guns can be tricky to produce higher scores than a .45.I know, as I play with a .38Spl/1911.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by saleen322 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:39 pm

Larry Lang wrote:Good luck with the .38S. Mid-range guns can be tricky to produce higher scores than a .45.I know, as I play with a .38Spl/1911.
No brother, the 38 Super is FAST!! It can get velocities in the 1200 FPS area or more. The .38 midrange is normally a .38 Special. I have a Super that I bought used but never shot it in a match. Thought it was neat looking and the guy wanted to sell quick. I will have to try it at 50 yards to see what it will do. Good luck with yours.


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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:16 am

I have one that I had built just for that purpose when my .32 went south on me. I also have a .38 spl. wad gun built by Larry Leuteneger that is very perplexing. I bought the .38 spl used and will probably put a new barrel in it since it won't hold the X ring at 25yds off a rest.Mad

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Larry Lang on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:05 pm

Good luck to you too Saleen332. I've never seen an IPSC race gun on a BE firing line.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by saleen322 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:04 pm

Larry Lang wrote:Good luck to you too Saleen332. I've never seen an IPSC race gun on a BE firing line.
I guess it would be legal to use but, IMHO, they are not as accurate as a good BE gun. They would work well in rapid I think. Laughing  The rounds need some velocity to work the compensater right so it would get there in a hurry and the noise would probably have people throwing things at me! lol

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by AllAces on Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:06 pm

.38 Super is very flat shooting at 50 yds, with low recoil. Its the low recoil that the IPSC dudes like. I don't think you see many at BE CF matches as a lot of the shooters use their .45 ACP, or have a S&W Model 52, and the Super can be an expensive purchase.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:31 pm

I had to do a lot of work to find a load that was super accurate for mine but was easy after Kart replaced the first barrel for free but I still had to have it fitted. A 150 gr.semi wad cutter that I cast shoots into 1 inch at 50 yds out of a rest. I have my dot mounted on the slide.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:46 am

Personally I never shot the 38 WC gun well.  Something about that slow , feel the slide hit both ends, recoil never worked for me.  My Clark 38WC gun shot very well and had a fine trigger but my follow through was so poor that I was lucky to hold 10 ring with it at 25 yards.  The Super, as I load it,  generates the same amount of recoil energy but the recoil pulse is so much shorter.  It works much better for me.  Allen Fulford worked with the cartridge extensively before he passed.  He had his shooting pretty good..


Last edited by Axehandle on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Magnusbullets on Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:26 pm

Allen Fulford shot one for some time. 868 First match with it at. conyers. 887 next week at ft benning. I shot it after conyers match. 50 yd clean 8x. I was still shooting around 2650 then. Shot easy. Tack driver. Low recoil. Flat shooter Clark built. Velocity of load makes it dream to shoot.
115 gr nosler vita powder.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:39 pm

I haven't found a jacketed bullet load that I like in mine but the 150gr SWC I cast over Clays International will flat out shoot.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by spursnguns on Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:06 pm

.38 Super....

125 grain Hornady XTP + 4.0 grains Bullseye = one ragged hole at 50 yards

A great load for a great cartridge.

Jim

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:36 pm

I built a 38 Super back in the 90's just for CF.  Downloaded it to 38 Special velocities (710 fps on chrono) and the gun shot 1.25 x 1.25 at 50 yards all day long.  Shot the Meister 150 SSWC behind 3.0 gr 452AA.  Mags are cheap and not finicky.  Still have it sitting in the safe.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:02 am

Kc PM sent.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:47 pm

150s at 710FPS  sounds a lot like a 38 Special WC gun.  Bet you can feel the slide hit both ends like a 38 Special WC gun too.   My reasoning for the 38 Super is the faster cycling with a 115 at 900-1000 FPS..  Fulford's load was the lighter bullet at the higher velocity.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:55 pm

Actually, if the gun is sprung correctly you have no problems at all.  And yes it does almost duplicate a 38 special for feel.  Almost no recoil.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:08 am

Axe I have to agree with Kc. If you have the right recoil spring to match the load you shouldn't feel the slide moving at all. I own both .38 Super and .38 spl and don't notice the slide movement of either, actually I don't feel or notice the slide movement on my .45 unless there is a malfunction.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:05 pm

Don't really think we are talking about the same thing.  My perception of the slow slide operation comes from shooting more than one Clark 1911 38 Super and more than one model 52 S&W with GI Winchester 148 grain wadcutter ammo.  The reliability and accuracy potential of the gun and ammo was never the question.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:19 pm

Axe no afence here but we're not comparing apples to apples.
I have a 1911 built in.38 spl and a 1911 .38 super.
Your comparison is with a 1911 .38 super and an alloy frame model SW 52 with Hot GI ammo verses mid range reloads.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:43 am

These 52s were the original flush seated wadcutter semi autos.   The goverment issue Winchester 38 Special ammo was mid range ammo with a 148 grain hollow base wadcutter.  FWIW the years I possessed these 38 Special wadcutter guns I was a member of the Alabama National Guard Pistol Team and the All National Guard Shooting Team.  The guns and ammo belonged to the government.   I was a master class shooter with USAF Distinguished Pistol Shot badge #231, and Chief's Fifty badge number #124P.  Of course I'll acknowledge that my perception of the recoil characteristics of the 38 Special Wadcutter gun is a personal perception.   I remember them shooting so good and recoiling so easy that the expectation was that I'd equal my 22 score and X count with them.  That never happened.  In match competition I was lucky to hold the 10 ring at 25 yards.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:28 am

Rodger Barthlow wrote:Axe no afence here but we're not comparing apples to apples.
I have a 1911 built in.38 spl and a 1911 .38 super.
Your comparison is with a 1911 .38 super and an alloy frame model SW 52 with Hot GI ammo verses mid range reloads.
My 52-2 is a steel frame. Am I wrong in thinking that all Model 52's were steel frames and not alloy?

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:56 am

It has been 20 years but I was thinking every Model 52 38 WC gun I ever held was steel myself.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Virgil Kane on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:17 am

Interesting topic! I have always liked the 38 Super but have never owned one.

As far as recoil. I have a Clark Long Slide 45 and a Model 52-2. The 52-2 has a barrel/frame weight on it and both have 30mm Ultra Dot with slide mounts on each one. The recoil from the 52-2 and the Clark LS feel the same to me. It took a while to get use to it but yes, I can feel the slide at both ends of the cycling. My Colt series 80 that I rebuilt with a slide mounted 30mm UD and 5" barrel I don't feel the slide at either end.

Is the 38 Super recoil similar to that of the S&W 952 in 9mm?

Thanks
Virgil

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Rodger Barthlow on Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:11 pm

Axehandle wrote:It has been 20 years but I was thinking every Model 52 38 WC gun I ever held was steel myself.
The last 52-2 I owned the frame was made from an aluminum alloy like the S&W M39 & 59.

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

Post by Axehandle on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:26 pm

Never owned one.  Had a couple issued to me.   Steel or alloy is moot at this point.  I don't care for them.  Of course I don't like the 1911 38 Special conversions either for the same reason.


Last edited by Axehandle on Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 38 Super Centerfire Gun

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