CMP Warm Up Match Camp Perry 2023

Jim Henderson posted this on FB, figured I would share here and pass along info. Here is the message:

Hello!! 
I have a quick Pistol National Matches question for all that shoot that event.

In 2021 the CMP ran the Warm Up match as a typical 900 aggregate match. All three slow fires were shot, then we moved to the 25yd line. 
I took a lot of flack for that in the post event survey with people begging we go back to the way it was run before, as three separate NMC’s.

So in 2022 the CMP ran the Warm Up match as three separate NMC’s…
I took a lot of flack for that in the post event survey with people begging we shoot all the slow fires at 50yds, then move to the 25yd line. 

With a little restructuring of range commands and score cards, I believe the best practice is to shoot all Slow Fire strings, then move to the short line. Shoot Timed and Rapid, .22 NMC is complete. Then shoot Timed and Rapid, CF NMC is complete. Shoot Timed and Rapid, .45 NMC is complete.

Option 1 is it would be shot as 3 separate NMC’s.
Option 2 is it would be all Slow Fires shot, then move to 25yds and complete each Timed and Rapid as needed.

While I see an advantage of doing it this way, I'm afraid it will be very confusing to lot of people. Maybe as a warm-up it should be just a 900 any caliber? If not, then I'd rather keep it as separate NMCs, just to avoid confusion.

Look, I'm all for looking at things to see if they can be improved,  but unless the actual match is going to be shot as all .22 long line, then all centerfire long line and all .45 long line, then all TF with 3 calibers, etc.; then why make the warm up match any different than the progression for the actual match?

If it takes someone too long to set up after moving from 50 to 25 and back to 50 then that would seem to be something other than a shooting or match time issue.

So, Option 1!

Just my personal observation.

Just my 2 cents.

Option 1
After shooting 10 shots SF with your specific caliber pistol, you are ready for the short line; you’ve had 10 shots to get consistent grip, zero, felt recoil, and trigger squeeze. You will shoot your best scores. Switching pistols leaves room for more errors between guns. Some people really struggle going back to the 22 after shooting 45. Gripping and trigger pull related issues.
Jon

On the other hand, and it's just my personal opinion, life in general and the week at Perry is just too short to complain about changes in the match format (although it makes an excellent discussion topic for any post-match social gathering, e.g. at Andy's  I'm just happy to be there with you fellow shooters, shoot my matches, catch up with old friends, dine at Jolly Rogers and do all those other things we do every year  After all, Perry is just a practice match to get in shape before Desert Midwinter, isn't it?

Option 1. I don't want to be switching back and forth between guns.

CR10X wrote:If it takes someone too long to set up after moving from 50 to 25 and back to 50 then that would seem to be something other than a shooting or match time issue.

So, Option 1!

Just my personal observation.

Just my 2 cents.

I realize I am in the age minority of shooters in this game (late 20s) but I would argue that it takes a significant number of the people competing far too long to move their stuff (arguably too much of it) from the 50 to 25 yard lines at Perry. It was my recollection that it took significantly longer this year to shoot practice day than either CF or 45 day (22 day the range I was on had 3 range alibis). Sitting around waiting to shoot in the middle of an uncovered range isn't my idea of a good time.

Personally I don't really care either way.

Jon Eulette wrote:Option 1
After shooting 10 shots SF with your specific caliber pistol, you are ready for the short line; you’ve had 10 shots to get consistent grip, zero, felt recoil, and trigger squeeze. You will shoot your best scores. Switching pistols leaves room for more errors between guns. Some people really struggle going back to the 22 after shooting 45. Gripping and trigger pull related issues.
Jon

Playing devils advocate, wouldn't option two demand utmost attention of the shooter to fundamentals in arguably some of the most challenging conditions in the sport? Room for errors is mitigated by attention to detail.

So people have their thoughts on which option is best, but what is the point of the practice match? I don't buy the validity needing to zero the gun to the range, the conditions will change by the next time you need to shoot. Personally I found it useful in getting used to the cadence of the commands, the height of the benches, and the speed of the targets turning.

I misread the options, I thought option 2 was the way 2700s are always run.

This is only for the Warm Up match at Camp Perry. It is shot as 3 NMC's, 22, CF and 45.

In the past we have shot 1 SF target at 50 with the 22, move to the 25 yard line, shoot TF & RF, then move back to the 50 yard line and repeat with CF and again for 45.

Moving back and forth between 50 and 25 makes the match take longer to run than a normal 900, plus it is the first day of the matches, so there are often bugs to be worked out in the target system, the match officials, the shooters and our equipment. On the other hand it trained everyone in the procedures for moving between lines, which I think it good as very few ranges have different firing lines for 50 and 25. Most bullseye ranges move targets. Camp Perry, and only a few other ranges, move the shooters and the targets stay in the same place.

The proposal is to shoot 22 SF, CF SF and 45 SF, then move to the 25 yard line and shoot TF & RF with the 22 followed by TF & RF with CF then 45.

Additionally, I can just imagine how long it will take shooters to change over from their .22 pistol for slow fire, to their CF pistol for SF, to their .45 for slow fire at the 50 yard line.  

Then it will happen again for all the TF Strings and again for all the RF strings.  

Lots of different guns being readied, then fired, then made safe, then boxed, then the next gun comes out has to be made safe (ECI, etc) between all the strings of 10 shots and scoring on each target.  (And I'm pretty sure someone is going to miss a sight change somewhere. 

The more I think about, the more I feel Option 1 for Prelim Match would probably still take less time. 

CR

CR10X wrote:Additionally, I can just imagine how long it will take shooters to change over from their .22 pistol for slow fire, to their CF pistol for SF, to their .45 for slow fire at the 50 yard line.  

Then it will happen again for all the TF Strings and again for all the RF strings.  

Lots of different guns being readied, then fired, then made safe, then boxed, then the next gun comes out has to be made safe (ECI, etc) between all the strings of 10 shots and scoring on each target.  (And I'm pretty sure someone is going to miss a sight change somewhere. 

The more I think about, the more I feel Option 1 for Prelim Match would probably still take less time. 

CR

CR,

I think you misinterpreted option 2. In a more visual format 

22 SF (score& repair)
CF SF (score& repair)
45 SF (Move to 25yrd, score, and repair)
22 TF (score& repair)
22 RF (score& repair)
CF TF (score& repair)
CF RF (score& repair)
45 TF (score& repair)
45 RF (score& repair)

Timed and rapid for each gun would be back to back. The time savings comes from only needing to move equipment once (as you would for the rest of the week for the corresponding 900). 

Christopher

One more thought, how many people shoot a 1911 conversion for 22 and switch it over to 45 for the CF and 45? That's what I'll be doing this season. Revolvers are getting a break this year.

When I got back into BE that's how I did it. I even swapped sear springs between 22 and CF.
Jon

Yep Jon and you'd have to do it a couple times going from long line to short line. Just a thought.

shooter1450 wrote:Yep Jon and you'd have to do it a couple times going from long line to short line. Just a thought.

Oh your asking about CMP/Perry.
I would
Jon