Scoring Question...

Following the first target in Timed Fire, the shooter has a 94-3x. Fails to replace target center, but taped over the 6 at 9 O'clock....

Second target (3rd string of TF) shooter has one away with an allowable alibi. shoots 4th string no isues....

During the alibi string, shooter fires SIX (6) shots on target!  

Is this a scorable target.....if so, how is it scored?

You’d have to reference the NRA and the CMP’s rule book but.. 

According to the CMP, when there are more than 10 shots you score the low ten. But you have a previous target’s worth of shots there too… I didn’t see anything about that in my quick search. Who ever is scoring you should be able to look at the score card and discern what was shot previously, and what is new. Of the new shots count the low ten. However, I’m willing to bet someone at the notationals would probably try to give you a hard time and try to get your whole target thrown out. 

Always check the rule book, and when you don’t find the answer reach out to someone with the association be it NRA or CMP.

I used to use the rule that if you can identify previous holes, score the remainder, but an Official NRA Referee told me that if the center is not repaired the target is disqualified from the, competitor's responsibly to fire on the correct target, rule.

The range command for TF is “With 5 rounds load”…..if the shooter loads and subsequently fires 6 rounds, would that not be a DQ?

TonyH wrote:The range command for TF is “With 5 rounds load”…..if the shooter loads and subsequently fires 6 rounds, would that not be a DQ?

If the command was given correctly, sometimes  the command is just given as “load”. This can sometimes even change over the course of the match depending on who is calling it. 

NRA 2020 rule book explains excessive hits under rule 14.10

CMP 2023 rule book 3.10.10 explains procedures for irregular shots, section f specifically excessive hits.

Without having further information on the specific situation, I would personally score the low ten, tell the shooter what I did and why, then offer to show them the relevant rule in the rule book (I have hard copy of the cmp’s most recent rules in my shooting kit and have the NRA one bookmarked on my phone). The Match Director should also have the relevant rule book available.

Depends on how formal you are being. If it's a local match then refer to the previous score card entry, ignore those and score the low 10. Whilst giving them a hard time - depending on how well you know them and how experienced they are. 

If you're at Perry - ask for guidance from the referee. As per Ed above - it's almost a certainty that the score will be zero for the second target.

Thanks Chiz. I was the f'n "culprit" that caused this mess. 
In my mind (presently) I'm trying to figure out how 6 rounds were loaded in the magazine and how I fired the 6th shot? Mental awareness failure for me all around in this situation (and while trying figure out why the pistol had a FT feed).

Thanks for the CMP and NRA rule numbers, very helpful in solving questionable scoring situations like this in the future.

Hawkja,
Im going to guess you are fairly new to the game, it was a simple mistake, it happens. Remember this is a game and it is supposed to be fun.

And just for good measure, maybe I x-fired on your target!

I too, lost a target score due to failure to post a fresh center.  In the past, I and others have scored a target like that since it is easy to reconstruct past shots.

I disagree with the ref's assessment that it is the wrong target.  It is correct for the distance and course of fire.  The rules say nothing about numbers of holes needed to make it incorrect. Ever  score a target where one hole was not pasted?  Why is that not disqualified as well?  One hole good - ten holes bad?  Perhaps a rule clarification is in order.

What is done at local matches often varies.
Rule 14.7 deals with excessive hits, not due to firing on the same target.
The competitor is scored a zero, as he failed to follow commands.
ie: The line is safe: go forward, score and repair....."

I read somewhere (looking for the post now) where a competitor did not change targets for all three of the Slow Fire targets. Scored the low ten on all targets. As long as the shooter is in the Ten ring, they don't lose points.? 

Sorry for going down this rabbit hole.

Hawkja wrote:Thanks Chiz. I was the f'n "culprit" that caused this mess. 
In my mind (presently) I'm trying to figure out how 6 rounds were loaded in the magazine and how I fired the 6th shot? Mental awareness failure for me all around in this situation (and while trying figure out why the pistol had a FT feed).

Thanks for the CMP and NRA rule numbers, very helpful in solving questionable scoring situations like this in the future.

Don't beat yourself up about this. We all make mistakes. Luckily in this game, they only cost points.

NYKenn wrote:What is done at local matches often varies.
Rule 14.7 deals with excessive hits, not due to firing on the same target.
The competitor is scored a zero, as he failed to follow commands.
ie: The line is safe: go forward, score and repair....."

Can you please cite the rule that verifies this practice?

Jason,

I didn't realize what a hot mess you had going on down there this weekend, lol. You probably ought to send this use case to Jim Henderson @ CMP so he can include it in the examples in the CMP rulebook.

That said- if I was the MD, I'd probably unpack what happened by order of operations. So:

1) Scoring alibi string = determined excessive hits.
2) Alibi string fired. 
3) Malfunction, 1 shot away.
4) Previous string score recorded, target face repaired, repair center not replaced.

If we agree this is the order in which things happened, going backwards from 1 to 4, then I'd say:

Your excessive hits on the target would be scored the lowest 10. I think that's the fairest way, using the rules below I'm thinking of section d):

"d) If a competitor, by mistake, fires more than the required number of shots, the required number of hits of lowest value will be scored. This shall not be considered a refire as outlined in Rule 9.14."

Otherwise, if another refire was allowed, then anyone could force a "double alibi" if you wanted to reshoot the target; but you already had your bite at the apple with the alibi.

As to what should be done regarding not replacing the repair center, there is something in the NRA rules about competitor responsibilities about repairing the target:

14.14 "After each target is scored shot holes are patched or target is changed."

... but I just took a look and don't see any specific remedy for this particular issue. I don't think this rises to the level of 14.7, because it is clear that the target is assigned to that firing point, and is also intended to be used for the match, stage, and distance. 

The target is the scorecard, so you would need to get with the scorer, subtract the previous hits that aren't in error, then take the lowest 10 shots remaining for the second series score.

Oh, and then repair the center.

-Chase

Chase, i think yours is the most reasonable solution. Course we'll probably never see it again now

The rules are simple, follow them or loose points! Failure to replace target will result in 0 score but I've seen it overlooked. Also if as many do orient the repair center so as to cover a hole rather that use tape or paster will also result in 0 score. At Perry range personnel walk the line to check if someone forgot to replace the target. Loading 6 will get you disqualified, happened to a guy shooting next to me! Loading six will probably not but shooting 6 will. However I know a shooter that did get disqualified at Perry because he loaded 6 but only fired 5. He liked to load the first magazine with 6 and second with 4 at least that's what he claimed so that for second 5 he had one in the chamber and didn't have to do more than replace the magazine.