Rambling Novice Questions

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Rambling Novice Questions

Post by beeser on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:04 am

Why was .45 ACP chosen as one of the segments in bullseye competition?

Why isn't 9mm used more often in bullseye competition?

Why are larger caliber handguns more difficult (at least for me) to hit center than smaller calibers?

Why is the 1911 so ubiquitous to .45 ACP when other designs are made?  The 1911 design is over a hundred years old.  By contrast, .22lr designs seem to be improved almost on a yearly basis.  Why isn't similar progress made with larger caliber pistols?

That's enough for now.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:48 am

.45 ACP is not exactly specified for the 45 stage; you just have to use a 45 caliber gun  (45 colt for example)
9s seem to be harder for some people to shoot well & seem to be more difficult to work at the long line
The larger gun is getting inside your head, get some HELPFULL help.
Just my opinion but the 1911 design was "right" from the start, they are just refined the fit & finish with the new machining tolerences

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by BE Mike on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:52 am

To the best of my understanding the .22 was chosen as the civilian caliber. The centerfire (mostly .32 and .38) was chosen as the police caliber and "drum roll please", the .45 ACP was chosen as the caliber of the military.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by dronning on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:57 am

I'm bored so I'll give it a shot.

1) The 45ACP was the military round when Conventional Pistol Competition got started.  22LR(civilian), 38 or center fire stage(LEO's) now of course most people use their 45's, 45ACP(military).

2) Accuracy challenge, other rounds are much easier to get to X ring accuracy with much less recoil.

3) 99% of the issue is anticipation.

4) Hard to improve on near perfection.  Fantastic trigger good ergo. a billion parts available (maybe an overstatement).  That's why you see so many 1911 22 conversions on the line.  I've shot a Pardini and a Benelli and really liked them.  I was even considering a Pardini Bullseye with the 32acp conversion at one time.  Now I have a Nelson 22 Conversion on a Les Baer frame and Les Baer wad and hardball guns all with KC's new roll trigger kits and I will never change to another format.

Dave

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by DavidR on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:34 am

guess most of your questions are answered, except, there are 45s of modern design, look up the pardini gt 45, very nice. welcome to bullseye, its a very demanding sport.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by beeser on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:42 am

So, from the equipment standpoint, a 1911 in .45ACP is just as inherently accurate as any .22lr?  In other words, a good shooter would be able to score equally well using a 1911, .45ACP as the best .22lr pistol?

Also, I noticed after reading a little of the NRA rules that a .45 pistol cannot have the grip surrounding the main spring.  The first thing that came to mind was a particular Sig Seur model in .45 ACP that has just that feature.  Nice looking pistol.  But as I understand it can't be used in competition.  Further, the NRA rules seem to preclude any design other than a 1911.  Nothing against the 1911, just wondering why it came to be that way.  But I will approach stepping off the cliff by suggesting that I find it hard to believe that the 100 year old 1911 design is near perfection without giving alternative designs a chance to prove otherwise.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by DavidR on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:18 am

No not true, you are reading rules for service pistol, that is not for bullseye, grip can cover and even wrap around in bullseye. A well built 1911 is capable of just as good accuracy as a 22, ive seen many that will group under a inch at 50 yards. As for 45 alternatives, many have tried but when you look at what wins the nationals year end and year out its a 1911, if there was a better gun, the top shooters would be using it. A true custom tuned and built 1911 of today has about as much in common with a 100 year old 1911 as a ford t model has with a 2014 model. However bullseye is a sport, and many try new or different things, most times with little success, the old saying been there done that really relates to bullseye, cause 99% of everything you could think of trying has already been tried by countless shooters over many decades. Every once in awhile that new 1% thing pops up and we race to try it with hopes of huge gains.... and the game continues, So with highest score ever shot in a official match  set back in 1974 and still stands today id say nothing spectacular has been gained, oh and that record was shot with a smith Wesson 41, 22 and a 1911 built by a military armorer both with iron sights.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by dronning on Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:43 pm

As DavidR said many designs have been tried and in NRA bullseye you can shoot any 45ACP pistol in the 45 match.  It's only the CMP EIC matches that limits you to either the 1911 or a 9MM Bereta.

I know several people who only shoot revolvers, 22LR, 38spl & 45ACP and it do well.  There are non-1911's out there, I have seen a couple of Pardini GT 45's.  

If you can find a pistol with a fantastic trigger and shoots under 1.5" you have a gun that will take you to High Master, if you do your part, and guess what a 1911 fits that bill quite nicely.  Other designs, well keep them coming they will be tried.  They will live in die by what they can bring to the party.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by 243winxb on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:13 pm

"a good shooter would be able to score equally well using a 1911, .45ACP as the best .22lr pistol? "
                   Yes or even better with the 45. The 45 large hole will nick the higher scoring ring on the target.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by davekp on Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:30 pm

243winxb wrote:"a good shooter would be able to score equally well using a 1911, .45ACP as the best .22lr pistol? "
                   Yes or even better with the 45. The 45 large hole will nick the higher scoring ring on the target.

Not usually, but the difference is not great- 10 points or so in 900.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by Kermit Workman on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:42 pm

I think the national records are 898 with a .22LR and 896 with the .45 ACP.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by Ed Hall on Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:14 pm

Just for the "record(s)"  Smile 

Currently:

.22 is 898-62x
CF is 898-54x (shot with a .45, model 1911)
.45 is 897-49x

The records are available at National Records.

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Re: Rambling Novice Questions

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:13 pm

A well made 9mm will shoot as well as a 45 with high quality ammo. The 9mm seems to prefer jacketed ammo. 

There are several reasons it isn't shot more. It's another trigger to learn. It's another caliber to load. It's another gun to buy. It uses different mags. You can shoot the 45 twice. And finally, the 45 will get some plugs that a 9mm won't get. 

I've got a few I shoot in matches. They shoot very accurately.

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