New EIC Acceptable Pistols

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New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by BrianD on 3/2/2015, 12:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

I am a match director and I hope everyone is happy with the new rules.  I say this because I believe it is going to reduce the number of matches.

Why?  I just did a count on the number of pistols that are allowed, 136 different models.

So I will probably try it this year but if it is as big of a problem as I think it will be it will be the last year I run a EIC pistol match.

It makes $0.00 for our club as we essentially just cover the costs.

And by the way we have given out at least 1 leg ( and yes they were 6 point legs) every year that we ran the match.

As you may gather I am upset.  The CMP took a match that was easy to do and made it difficult.

And if you have never ran a match don't tell me that it will not be more difficult.

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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/7/2015, 5:06 pm

I don't think I'm going to make that call. I see the Springfield Trophy Match as compliant with the rules under 6.3.3 "or commercial versions of the same type (M1911) and caliber".

What do you think of that?
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/7/2015, 5:44 pm

I think, If you add a mag well to the target Loaded it looks just like the trophy Match so that would be OK too? Actually it would be a lot closer in appearance to the Target SRVC ( has mag well) model which by 6.3.3 you say the SRVC would qualify as compliant. I only bring this up because the OP was about inspecting the pistols. That is just 3 variations on one manufactures 1911 line. They make many more models. I would think there should be something mentioned about mag wells other then checking each model to see if that was the way it was made. Or, go with the " let everything pass".

Len
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/7/2015, 5:50 pm

What is a "Target SVRC"?
I would say it's not legal to add a magwell to a Loaded Target, but it is legal for a Trophy Match to have one from the factory as it is "a commercial version of the same type (M1911)"
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/7/2015, 5:54 pm

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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by knightimac on 3/7/2015, 6:39 pm

c
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by knightimac on 3/7/2015, 6:44 pm

I plan on asking if this fiber optic painted with black nail polish with be acceptable.

I am currently saving for a new wad gun and would like to shoot at ball match after a 2700 this summer with my XDcomp.
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/7/2015, 7:31 pm

Knightmac.  There is another option. There is a set of XD take offs on E-bay right now. They have the white (legal) dot. Going fairly cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Springfield-Armory-XDM-Factory-3-Dot-Dovetail-Steel-Sights-/121584108464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4efa43b0

FYI Sold for 16.00


Last edited by OldMaster65 on 3/15/2015, 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by CR10X on 3/7/2015, 8:00 pm

Rob:

I believe the wording on "commercial versions" has been there since before the last change.  In the past if a factory 1911 "commercial version" came with a guide rod, it had to be removed to be legal.  By that previous interpretation, it looks like it would not be acceptable.  I'm not arguing, but we can't read into the words what is not there or our own preferences.

Knightimac:

It's still a fiber optic sight.  If they has said "light gathering" only, we'd have a better chance.  And since I have a XDM too, I'll looking for a standard front sight as well. (Dawson Precision seems like the most options.)

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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/7/2015, 8:04 pm

I will submit an inquiry about 1911s with magwells, double stacks, and blackened fiber optics
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by knightimac on 3/7/2015, 8:29 pm

Thanks Rob for your help
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by james r chapman on 3/7/2015, 8:39 pm

and, ask why no 9mm 1911's too... while your at it...please...
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/8/2015, 5:22 pm

Since were talking about the 9x19 ( 9mm luger) I also wonder why the P-08 did not make the list? Might have bad vibes but sure meets all the requirements. Mine is a tack driver.

Len
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/8/2015, 5:45 pm

I still haven't got around to typing the email for the inquiry...I'll add the 9mm 1911 question and the P-08 question.
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by james r chapman on 3/8/2015, 6:13 pm

If they ask, it's the Brazilian military service weapon. !! ;-)
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/8/2015, 6:15 pm

Thanks, Rob

P38 got missed also
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/11/2015, 10:47 pm

Len, the P38 comment got me thinking--when you say p-08 are you talking about the CZ-75 P-08 or the WWI and WWII P-08? (aka Luger)
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by LenV on 3/11/2015, 11:13 pm

I was talking about the Luger. The p-38 is sometimes called a Luger also but yes the Walther.

Len
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/11/2015, 11:55 pm

....ja....I'll tell you right now why neither of those is on the list.....there aren't many of those being used in pistol matches....
I will include it in my inquiry...
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by DavidR on 3/12/2015, 10:53 am

How about james bonds walther ppk 380, he was in her majesties'  secret service. The cmp is turning what once was a true distinguished competition into a free for all circus. No I also heard barney was pissed cause he cant enter a match, andy said no to additional ammo What a Face
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by james r chapman on 3/12/2015, 11:02 am

Life was easy when they handed you the.ammo.
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/14/2015, 11:28 am

I HAVE THE ANSWERS!!  See below:

Dear Mark and Shannon,


 

I'm working on some additional rules clarifications:

If 6 shooters enter a pistol leg match, and the winner fails tech (trigger under 4lbs) is no leg issued for that match?  If there are 6 shooters, and the winner passes tech, but one of the leather shooters doesn't have a legal trigger, is no leg issued for that match?

The rulebook isn't clear that triggers should be weighed prior to a match.

Can you offer any guidance on pre-match equipment checks?

Please see this thread on the Bullseye-L forum for context:

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t3886p25-new-eic-acceptable-pistols

 

1.    Can a shooter blackout a fiber optic front sight with black nail

polish or other blackout method?

 <http://www.servimg.com/view/18896343/23>

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/18/89/63/43/nailpo11.jpg

 

2.    A question arose about if a 1911 pistol equipped with a factory

magwell was legal under the new rules.  I argued that the following pistol would be 100% legal because it fits under 6.3.3 Approved U. S. Service Pistols and Commercial Equivalents The following U. S. Government Service Pistols or commercial versions of the same type and caliber may be used in CMP-sanctioned Service Pistol Matches, provided they comply with Rules 6.3.1 and 6.3.2. . U. S. Government or Colt M1911 Service Pistols or commercial versions of the same type (M1911) and caliber. These pistols must be chambered for the .45ACP cartridge and have a barrel length not greater than 5.100".

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3331/3528591187_8d5a2088b1_z.jpg?zz=1

 

3.    What about "double stack" 1911 frames?  Legal or illegal.

 

4.    Why didn't 9mm 1911's become legal?

 

5.    Why didn't the 9mm German Luger (P-08) or Walther P-38 make the list

of approved pistols?



Thank you for the clarifications you can offer!


-Rob Kovach


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob, 

The six shooters have to compete and the tech inspection needs to occur before the match to insure the six exist.  If a pistol goes down during the course of fire that can be indicated on the score cards and winner would be eligible for legs if the minimum score is reached. 

1)      The rule states "use of fiber optic" sights is not permitted.  If
the fiber optic sight is painted over with black paint and cannot be easily wiped away, then the shooter cannot "use" the fiber optic.  The sight once painted would be a black sight and allowed. 

2)      A factory magwell is legal. 

3)      I find nothing prohibiting double stack 1911 frames. 

4)      9mm caliber 1911s were felt to have a true advantage over the other pistols by the Rules Committee members and therefore not allowed. 

5)      Two pistols that were simply forgotten about and would be allowed. 

Best Regards, 

Mark Johnson
Chief Operating Officer
Civilian Marksmanship Program
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by james r chapman on 3/14/2015, 11:43 am

Thanks!

nice to know the 9mm 1911 will outshoot the .45acp 1911(haha...)
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by Rob Kovach on 3/14/2015, 11:54 am

I'm going to the range with my Browning High Power right now to see how well I can do with it....
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/14/2015, 11:58 am

I wonder what they would say about full custom 1911 builds with mag wells.  Would the mag-well be prohibited since it is not a factory pistol?
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

Post by knightimac on 3/14/2015, 12:40 pm

Thanks Rob and CMP.  My Xdm comp will be used in a match or two this year with black over the fiber optics.
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Re: New EIC Acceptable Pistols

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