Ammo, Marvel Conversion

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Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

I just scored a Marvel conversion kit, with both a standard sight and a scope rail rib, and for a fairly decent price. It seems to run well on a Colt Combat Commander frame, but it cycles best with hi-velocity ammo, and I'm currently feeding it Auto-Match. Is this normal? What are the rest of you with Marvels shooting through ithem? I hear the unit is delicate, is there anything I should watch out for? Thanks in advance.

Cousin Jack

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Rob Kovach on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:01 am

Cousin Jack,
It looks like your conversion has the original narrow extractor. It's a design flaw. Over time the extractor will eat the extractor relief into the chamber.

The Marvel addressed the problem with a wider extractor. You would need to buy a new slide to update your setup.

If I get time, I will check to see if the updated geometry of the Advantage Arms extractor will work in your existing slide.

About your hot ammo: there is no problem. It's cycling fine. If you wast to shoot SV ammo, the real soft stuff runs with a 6lb spring (white painted coils) for SV CCI it will take the orange or yellow.

Order the springs from Marvel. Those light weights are not advertised on their website.

Rob Kovach
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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by ric1911a1 on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:45 am

Jon Eulette wrote:With the SIG mags can you let slide forward with slidestop and chamber a round?
Jon
Jon,


Yes.

Another thing I like is that they seem to be a well thought out .22 magazine built to fit the 1911 frame, rather than a .45 magazine adapted to .22.

I now have 3 of them I have been alternating, with no problems at all. A friend also has 3 that work well.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:10 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:Cousin Jack,
It looks like your conversion has the original narrow extractor. It's a design flaw. Over time the extractor will eat the extractor relief into the chamber.

The Marvel addressed the problem with a wider extractor. You would need to buy a new slide to update your setup.

If I get time, I will check to see if the updated geometry of the Advantage Arms extractor will work in your existing slide.

About your hot ammo: there is no problem. It's cycling fine.  If you wast to shoot SV ammo, the real soft stuff runs with a 6lb spring (white painted coils) for SV CCI it will take the orange or yellow.

Order the springs from Marvel.  Those light weights are not advertised on their website.

Wow.  Thanks for the education, if I have to buy a new slide and extractor, maybe I didn't get the good deal I thought I got.....

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:21 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:Cousin Jack,
It looks like your conversion has the original narrow extractor. It's a design flaw. Over time the extractor will eat the extractor relief into the chamber.

The Marvel addressed the problem with a wider extractor. You would need to buy a new slide to update your setup.

If I get time, I will check to see if the updated geometry of the Advantage Arms extractor will work in your existing slide.

About your hot ammo: there is no problem. It's cycling fine.  If you wast to shoot SV ammo, the real soft stuff runs with a 6lb spring (white painted coils) for SV CCI it will take the orange or yellow.

Order the springs from Marvel.  Those light weights are not advertised on their website.
Is this the updated extractor you were referring to?   If so, I might just buy it to see if it works.   If the new slide I have to buy is what Marvel calls their "aluminum lockback" or "steel lockback", I'd be looking at another $5-600..... which won't happen.  I'll try to sell the unit to someone as dumb as I am.....

Or just keep buying new barrels..... how much are they?


http://advantagearms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AASOS&Product_Code=GlkExtractor&Category_Code=GKParts

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by C.Perkins on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:52 pm

I am running a 7# M41 Wolff recoil spring in my Marvel unit 1 with no issues with SV ammo.
Maybe contact Marvel to see what they could do for you ?
Personally, I would just run with it, do not know how many rounds you shoot.
Here is a pic of my extractor, you can see that there is a small section cut out to accept the wider extractor and maybe the chamber notch will have to be widened also.



Clarence

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Dr.Don on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:26 pm

Extractors on Marvels changed in thickness at least once, maybe twice during their history.  The new thicker one will not fit an older slide, at least not without milling both slide and barrel.  I know this because I bought a spare extractor for mine earlier this year, and they asked me to measure the thickness so they would know which one to send me.  Mic yours and post the thickness and I think we will know if it is the newer thicker version.


Last edited by Dr.Don on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by C.Perkins on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:35 pm

For reference, mine measures .095"

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by C.Perkins on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:49 pm

I also want to ad after reading again, that you have a commander length.
Long slide with SV ammo will run with an 8# spring ish.
Government slide with SV ammo will run with a 7# spring ish.
Never used a Commander length but maybe go with the numbers and a 6# ish spring.

Just some thoughts while it was on my mind.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:54 pm

Thanks, everyone..... good forum, this.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Dr.Don on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:18 pm

Jack, your .095 extractor is the more recent, thicker version.  The spare they sent me, also a recent one, is .094.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by C.Perkins on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:24 pm

Dr.Don;

That was my measurement, not Jacks.

Clarence

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:51 pm

I will mic mine forthwith, as soon as I can find someone with a digital mic..... I've got a dial, and I don't trust my read....

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Dr.Don on Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:50 am

Sorry Clarence.  I mis-read.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:31 am

Cousin Jack wrote:
Rob Kovach wrote:Cousin Jack,
It looks like your conversion has the original narrow extractor. It's a design flaw. Over time the extractor will eat the extractor relief into the chamber.

The Marvel addressed the problem with a wider extractor. You would need to buy a new slide to update your setup.

If I get time, I will check to see if the updated geometry of the Advantage Arms extractor will work in your existing slide.

About your hot ammo: there is no problem. It's cycling fine.  If you wast to shoot SV ammo, the real soft stuff runs with a 6lb spring (white painted coils) for SV CCI it will take the orange or yellow.

Order the springs from Marvel.  Those light weights are not advertised on their website.

Wow.  Thanks for the education, if I have to buy a new slide and extractor, maybe I didn't get the good deal I thought I got.....


Well, now that I've been educated through you good people......about $350 too late.... I need to see if I can wiggle out of this (I don't have the heart to sell a toxic extractor slide to someone as dumb as me), so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a Smith/Machinist who could modify my existing slide and barrel to accept the new model extractor?   I've sent an inquiry to Marvel to see if they sell new slides other than their "lockback" models, which I can't afford..... again, any help appreciated.....  (Should have stuck with my Ruger, should have stuck with my Ruger, should have stuck with my Ruger!)

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:05 am

It's not practical to try to buy points, but it's always fun to buy toys  What a Face

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:09 am

Well, I contacted Marvel, and they nicely explained that the unit was too old (2001), had been produced by an entirely different company, and they couldn't help me with it....  But, luckily for me, the original owner agreed to take it back and return my money.... which I'll now spend on a Nelson Conversion with an extra 8lb spring....   That way I can shoot bulk ammo when I can find nothing else, and match ammo when I can.... 
All's well....

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Christopher Miceli on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:25 am

Good to hear! Now you get to wait Smile

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:30 am

Once again...for the most part we are gentlemen of our word

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Jerry Keefer on Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:48 pm

Well, now that I've been educated through you good people......about $350 too late.... I need to see if I can wiggle out of this (I don't have the heart to sell a toxic extractor slide to someone as dumb as me), so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a Smith/Machinist who could modify my existing slide and barrel to accept the new model extractor?   I've sent an inquiry to Marvel to see if they sell new slides other than their "lockback" models, which I can't afford..... again, any help appreciated.....  (Should have stuck with my Ruger, should have stuck with my Ruger, should have stuck with my Ruger!)[/quote]
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The extractor is half the problem.. The early Marvels, all 41s, Rugers and etc.,  used the widely accepted radius cut out in the barrel to clear, and cam/time the extractor.. It's very hard to time it properly.. VERY HARD..and with a lot of luck.. I struggled with it for years.. One day while working on a 22 rifle, I noticed the cut out was not a radius, but a 45 degree angle..If it works on a rifle why not a pistol.?? I immediately changed and life was so much easier.. With a complimentary angle on the extractor face, the extractor could now be timed, and the very thin chamber section near the breech face no longer existed..The wider extractor is a plus,  but there is no reason the narrow extractor will not work, if properly timed and cammed.. The extractor on Pardinis is also very thin.. Works great..I retro fitted a lot of early model Marvels, all 41s, And Rugers with the 45 degree clearance slot and the thicker extractor.. even on some Kart models..The extractor is one of those very misunderstood parts, and some are ill designed.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Cousin Jack on Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:36 pm

Well, fortunately, or unfortunately in your case, I guess, the previous owner took the unit back and returned my money..... so I don't have a unit to send to you to have any work done on it.   I have my trusty Ruger 22/45 with a Volq kit in it, and it functions flawlessly (except with high price ammo) and is still a better shooter than I am (250 with irons inside).   But I'm seventy three and probably don't deserve a better gun anyway.....although I'd like to try shooting outside, and want the best I can afford even if I can't utilize it to its full capacity....

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Jack H on Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:49 pm

Has Nelson and Advantage Arms come on board with the 45 degree extractor cut?

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:55 pm

I remove material from mag and tune to keep from hitting the extractor.
Jon

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Jerry Keefer on Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:48 pm

Jack H wrote:Has Nelson and Advantage Arms come on board with the 45 degree extractor cut?
I have  never seen a Nelson.. Haven't seen an AA in quite a while.. The Marvel did move to the angle when they went to the thick late model extractor. It totally eliminated the chamber break thru issues..

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:23 pm

my Nelson is not a radius cut... their extractor is thinner than .095


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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:32 pm

The thickness was only part of the design flaw in the early marvel conversions. The profile was the bigger problem. The problem was corrected by Advantage arms and Nelson.

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Re: Ammo, Marvel Conversion

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