I don't like recoil.

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I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:14 pm

I'm using 4.0 gr of Bullseye with a 200 gr LSWC. It's got a fair amount of recoil to it. I'm shooting iron sights only and I'm using an 18.5 pound recoil spring, and 19 pound hammer apring. The gun and Ammo shoots good but it recoils a good bit. Something im not used to. I here people using words like "light target loads". This is not a light load I feel. It's as good as facotory felt recoil. Any way to get rid of some of the recoil?

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:44 pm

A properly fit match barrel will be soft shooting with that load. Your pistol comes out of battery too fast and coupled with that heavy recoil spring adds to felt recoil. 
No way around it!
Jon

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:56 pm

When I finish a pistol build it will normally just function with 4.0 gr BE with 200 gr lswc using 11# spring. Very very soft recoil. That's the biggest compliment I normally get is the shooter/owner can't believe how soft pistol recoils! Barrel can retard slide travel which is most of the felt recoil. Poorly fit match barrels and stock barrels do very little to slow down the slide. If you shot a modern custom BE pistol and an old Clark with welded up barrel you can easily feel the difference. Both can shoot good from a Ransom rest, but shooting from hand is what matters. 2700 is endurance match. Less recoil equals more points!
Jon


Last edited by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add word)

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:54 pm

I'm shooting iron sights not a dot. If I go down in poundage on the recoil spring wouldn't I feel the recoil more? Would it be abusive to the gun to be "under sprung"?

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:20 pm

Stock barrel equals heavier recoil spring; scope or irons. No shortcuts to minimizing recoil.
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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:24 pm

So if a modern and properly fit barrel slows the slide down more does that mean it would wear out sooner? It sounds like to me something is dragging or coming into contact. Which to my untrained mind makes me think wear.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:29 pm

Lugs are meant to lockup the pistol. Marriage between slide, barrel, bushing, slidestop pin and link are what contribute to accuracy and RECOIL. Barrel locks and unlocks. Pretty simple, but has to be done correctly. Done wrong and you will get wear that isn't normal.
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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:08 pm

This then would be the reason for a separate 25 yard and 50 yard load I presume.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jerry Keefer on Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:13 pm

One thing that is rarely,  if ever mentioned, is the "lock time" or lock period.. When Jon is referring to fit, the fit has an enormous effect on the lock period.. A match chamber, (minimum spec) and absolute minimum headspace, and the weight of the  barrel, (cones/sleeves)  all contribute to the lock time period.. The case seizes to the chamber wall for a micro sec.  During this seizure, thrust against the breechface ceases.. it's a dwell period..even the .22 blow back has a dwell time..The sooner this happens in the ballistic event, the better the gun feels to the shooter.. Small chambers and minimum headspace plus a precise fit between the lugs/hood etc, all contribute to the enhanced feel. The upper lugs actually take very little force when fit properly.  In fact this has been argued on other forums.. Sheared lugs.. I have never seen a sheared lug.. Even in  catastrophic failures I have seen, that actually blew the gun apart,  did not produce a broken or sheared upper lug..

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by BE Mike on Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:37 am

Practice with factory ball (230 gr. fmj) or the equivalent reload for a few months. When you go back to your wad load, you'll think you are shooting a .22.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by DavidR on Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:44 am

Reduce the load, 4.0 is not needed with a 200, you can drop it to 3.6 and maybe drop recoil spring to 15 16 your recoil will be way less and bullet will be just as accurate.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:57 pm

3.5 grains of Bullseye with a 185 grain LSWC shot beautiful at 25 yards. I did not test them at 50 because the majority of people I talked to said use 200 grain Bullets for 50 and that the 185's don't do so well past 25. I remember testing 200 grain bullets with 3.2 and up until 4.0 and stuck with that because it did well at 50. I don't recal the 3.5 or 3.6 loads right now but I can give them another try at 25. I just don't wanna have to buy two projectiles. Or even set up for two different loads. But the recoil sucks right now and it's messing with my other shooting sport.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by DavidR on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:02 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:3.5 grains of Bullseye with a 185 grain LSWC shot beautiful at 25 yards. I did not test them at 50 because the majority of people I talked to said use 200 grain Bullets for 50 and that the 185's don't do so well past 25. I remember testing 200 grain bullets with 3.2 and up until 4.0 and stuck with that because it did well at 50. I don't recal the 3.5 or 3.6 loads right now but I can give them another try at 25. I just don't wanna have to buy two projectiles. Or even set up for two different loads. But the recoil sucks right now and it's messing with my other shooting sport.
Anybody who said a 185 isn't accurate at 50 yards is very mistaken, if you want one load try 3.8 be with a good 185 lswc, they will shoot 2'' or better out of a good gun all day long. But you can use 3.6 & 185 short line and 3.6 w/200 long line and load without changing anything on your press

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by jglenn21 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:51 pm

3.5 of bullseye with your existing 200 gr #68s will work just fine. I use that very load at the short line with a slide mounted dot.. All you do is fine the right spring for that combination.  on mine no need to use a catch net as it just lays the brass on the table... I bet a 12lb spring on an iron sighted pistol would do fine with 3.5


Last edited by jglenn21 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:55 pm

Thanks guys. Will break out some new loads soon to try. I'm out of 185's at the moment. Will test a lower charge with the 200's. Thanks again.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by LenV on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:04 pm

BE Mike wrote:Practice with factory ball (230 gr. fmj) or the equivalent reload for a few months. When you go back to your wad load, you'll think you are shooting a .22.

I agree with this statement and practice it. Some might say that I took it a tad far. Shocked

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4788-curing-the-flinch-redneck-style?highlight=flinch

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Edcnh on Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:20 am

I have the same problem using 200g LSWC with 4.0g Bullseye in my stock Range Officer. Will try a 12 lb spring to reduce charge. And look into a pistol tuneup as well. Great info in this post!

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:13 am

You can replace your mainspring with a 23lb or higher to help retard the slide movement to the rear.  Then you should be able to easily use a 15lb recoil spring.  Change your firing pin stop to a small radius will also help the reducing felt recoil.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by straybrit on Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:38 am

>You can replace your mainspring with a 23lb or higher

Hmm - now that's interesting. I was told, years ago when I was starting out, that if you reduced the recoil spring you should reduce the mainspring as well. To 'keep them in balance'. Sounds like I've been doing it wrong. Clearly some experimentation is in order.

You learn all sorts of good stuff in here.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by james r chapman on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:01 am

Balance, grasshopper, balance.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jerry Keefer on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:44 am

Well, having been a full time police trainer for many years of fairly large PD, and a reasonably successful BE coach, I am against recoil.. I don't care what the macho status of the individual is, recoil equals lost points/misses.. If that were  not so, 45 scores would equal .22 scores.  Shoot a NMC with a .44 magnum and let me know how that works out..I am vigorously opposed to increasing recoil to achieve becoming accustomed. One of the old training practices was to shoot the 2700 with hard ball.. Brilliant..  Not to mention the very real potential for permanent injury.. Can we think back to the old heavy holders who eventually required surgery.. 
It is human instinct to resist quick, violent movement and noise.. With training it can be suppressed and controlled by the brain, but it is always there. Nothing is better than dry fire practice/ air gun/ or .22
These methods allow the shooter to see what's taking place..Hammer fall disturbance, follow thru..  How to condition the brain, and develop a shot process..and then...transfer the process to the bigger guns..
If one is  supper sensitive, and or prone to injury, go to a frame mount, and get the velocities down into the high 6s at 50 yds and low 6s at short line. Recoil will be greatly diminished.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:26 pm

The thing about the hammer spring - I've (finally) converted to a standard mainspring housing type with a 19 pound spring. If I go up in poundage to help slow the slide down then I'll be affecting my trigger pull some seeing as part of the job was to use a reduced power hammer spring.

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:32 pm

Try the EGW oversized firing pin stop 1st. It will need to be fit. Comes standard with square (no radius) edge against hammer. Put small radius on it when fitting. You won't have to alter trigger weight/springs when using just this option. Will keep slide in battery longer.
Jon

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:41 pm

I can try that but to ask when I do not know about this - what would a firing pine stop have to do with felt recoil I wonder?

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Re: I don't like recoil.

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:45 pm

Standard stop has a radius that cocks hammer. Square non radius requires more cocking effort (simple physics) because of less leverage (contacts hammer lower). Adding small radius helps with wear and will help softer loads cycle.
Jon


Last edited by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: I don't like recoil.

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