trigger control and finger placement

Ive pretty much got my low left timed and rapid figured out with dry fire practice...but I still get some left pull like 9 oclock striaght left . My slow fire is dead center but TF & RF pull into the 9ring ....Ive started to put more of my finger on the trigger just for timed and rapid ....how much finger do you guys use ...the tip? the pad ? or almost the first joint?......I'm not pulling low anymore so I got the jerk fixed ....now its just straight left....do I need some thumb pressure?

The hard spot in the crook of the first joint is the right spot.

I can't speak for others, but here's what I do.

Before sustained fire begins I start with the slide back and no magazine. The pistol is held in a low ready position. I pay attention to the dot and begin the trigger movement to the rear while paying very close attention to the dot. It the dot moves to the left, right, or down, I adjust my fingers placement on the trigger to make it stay still during the trigger press. It normally takes very little movement to make the dot stay still.

Try it, if it works great!

FWIW

PS: I forgot to mention I also do this at the beginning of the slow fire stage. I may take 1 1/2 minutes of the allotted time just dry firing and getting the finger placement correct. (Not that it helps my final score, but it makes me feel better).

This is another "one size does not fit all". The length of your fingers, the girth of grip, and more, decide what it takes to pull straight back on the trigger without negative affect on your sight. Dryfire with care. Pump your trigger to find what works.

Rob Kovach wrote:The hard spot in the crook of the first joint is the right spot.

Completely agree. There's less fatty tissue in the joint than the Pad. The trigger should feel a little lighter this way

This thread made me think about my trigger finger placement and I could see it was not deep enough. I am going to thin out the grip at the back and right side to see if that helps.

Steve B wrote:

Rob Kovach wrote:The hard spot in the crook of the first joint is the right spot.

Completely agree. There's less fatty tissue in the joint than the Pad. The trigger should feel a little lighter this way

I agree this may be ideal. But I find that a straight pull is far more important no matter how you place your trigger finger. The geometry of your hand and the gun may not add up to ideal for a straight back pull. Mine do not. It's probably like a bell curve thing. Some component is out of normal range which affects the whole combination.

I'll give the first joint a try. I was useing more or less the the tip and while for some reason slow fire is fine but T&R would look like someone put about 6 clicks of left into my red dot....I started useing more of my finger on sundays range session and the group came to the right....most of the way....I'll try the joint and see what happens..

I used to use the tip. It would work because I had most of my hand behind the backstrap. Now that I am gripping in the right place with nearly none of my hand back there, the line at the first joint works great. With the wrong grip, my wrist was bent but the gun would be directly in line with my forearm. With the right grip, I could lay a straight-edge on my forearm out to the tip of my middle finger knuckle. The musculature is similar to a punch.

what I dont really understand is how may slow fire can be dead center....and my timed and rapid will go left useing the same finger placement..the low left was a jerk I get that....but dont matter I'll try the joint and see what happens...Ive been griping the gun like the phots the Gunny Zins posted....

This from the AMU Manual Chapter 1 on trigger finger:
"j. The non-shooting hand should be used to adjust the "fit" of the
pistol into the shooting hand. A slight rotation of the weapon in the
gripping hand as it is alternately gripping and releasing will allow the
equalizing of a forceful grasp. The gripping hand must reach around to
the right far enough to allow the trigger finger to reach into the
trigger guard and also to position itself on the trigger at the exact
point at which the trigger pressure can be applied straight to the rear.
According to the size of the hand, the trigger finger will apply
pressure with the tip, ball of the first section or the crook of the
first joint or elsewhere. The primary concern is not what portion or
spot along the trigger finger is the standard point of contact, but at
what spot on the finger you can bisect the trigger, press straight to
the rear without disturbing sight alignment."

I urge you to STUDY the whole chapter and book again and again. http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm

I asked Brian Zins if the AMU grip description is a good interpretation. He said it is.

My interpretation is to press the gun backstrap hard down into the v notch of your hand and wiggle it to the most solid position "Zins location or not. We are talking 1911 type gun grips here.

As much as I do agree with the above in the AMU manual, I DO NOT agree with this from the same chapter:
"To assure the sights will stay in alignment, the following test is made:
extend the shooting arm and observe the sight alignment. If the front
and rear sights are out of alignment, grasp the barrel with the
non-shooting hand, loosen the grip sufficiently to slide the pistol in
the hand, rotating it slightly away from the direction of error in sight
alignment."

Even though you might have a tiny tiny bit of adaptability here, rotating the pistol in the hand seems to me contrary to the grip method in the same chapter. Also the manual does not emphasize very well how to align the sights with the eye, or better said, on the line of sight. The Blankenship article also on the BE Encyclopedia certainly does emphasize this.

well I read alot of that link....and went down to the basement ...and just so happen to have a 21 ft slow-fire to dry fire with......got the pistol squared up in my hand.....used the joint of the trigger finger and did some dry fire.....I could see no movement of the dot as i applied pressure....and in fact I must of had something right as my wobble circle would actually shrink while I was squeezeing.....looking forward to the range thursday morning before work......should be good ...

The correct finger placement and grip is the one that works for you. Many people use the same grip Zins uses with his 1911, myself included. However, that grip and trigger finger placement only works for my hand with the 1911. It will not work at all with my other guns (smith 41 & smith 52) - not even close. Each gun I hold and shoot takes some time to figure out how to grip it so I can control the trigger squeeze without affecting the point of aim. This is not something most people can do really quickly, rather it is something developed after a lot of shooting and studying of what is and is not working.

Whether your finger is on the pad or the first joint isn't important. What is important is if you can actuate the trigger without changing your point of aim. Dry fire is a very good way of quickly seeing the results.

As for gripping the gun, again, you have to figure out how to hold the gun so that it cannot move during recoil. Everyone's hand is different and every gun is different so there is no "one hold fits all" solution. I have found that finding the best hold is during actual shooting. You have to study how the gun behaves in your hand during shooting (forget about shooting for score as you study this). Rapid fire is about the best way to really get a feel for what is going on as you don't have time to adjust your grip during fire. Once you find that perfect hold, you will notice that the gun feels the same in your hand at the start of the rapid fire string and at the end.

Chris

Well the finger placement thing seems to be working and I kinda repostioned my grip so its like the grip that Gunny Zinns teaches....my shot groups on timed and rapid have moved to the right and are where they are almost centered....I think with alittle more fine tuneing everything will become more consistent.....I still think my shoot process needs more work but my scores are now going back into the high 270's again after being 250-260 for the last 2-3 months....useing the joint of the trigger finger even allows me to feel the trigger movement instead of just the break...which I like to feel the trigger move.