Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

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Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 1/29/2017, 2:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

Could use some help.  I recently acquired a couple of pistols chambered in .32 long which I want to shoot CF with. I was "warned" by several that reloading the 32Long could be "challenging", but....  Yikes!  I have started reloading with my Dillon 550, using used Fiocchi brass, 96 gr HBWCs and 1.5 gr. Bullseye. The reloads chamber and fire fine,  The issue is "fliers".  Really big ones! I initially noticed it shooting offhand (25 yards at B* repair centers). I might get 9 in the black, but one completely missing the entire target . Yesterday I used a bench-rest with the goal of reducing human error as much as possible. This narrowed the groups quite a bit but still fliers 1 out of every 10-15 rounds.  With the BR, the fliers seemed to be maybe 8-10", high, low, etc. 1 or 2 actually looked like they went into the cardboard target sideways, although it could have been 2 fliers side by side?

Are fliers like this common?  Uncommon? Unheard of?

I have tried to focus on the powder consistency by getting the XS Dillon measure, a Uniqutek Arredondo micrometer powder measure, as well as following their tips.  I am getting consistemcy of +1 .1 grain (i.e. 1.4-1.6 with most at 1,5 gr). 

The bullets came with one of the guns, I don't know the brand.  They measure at the base .3155 -.3185.  

Also, I don't get the fliers with factory Fiocchi cartridges. 

I have reloaded for years, although not for bullseye, but have never notice this issue (fliers) with any other size or gun.

At this point, I am not worried about accuracy itself, since I can use factory ammo at matches.  I am, however, trying to figure out how/why I am getting such huge fliers?  I expected the variances in powder consistency, used brass etc to reduce accuracy compared to factory, which is OK, but didn't expect this.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 2/4/2017, 11:01 am

I would like to thank all who replied with so many helpful suggestions.  For me, it has been very enlightening (and expensive!).  In response, I have purchased three different HBWCs in addition to my current stock of "mystery bullets (two type of Lapua, and one of Speer) to try.  I also got a de-capper which will re prime w/o re-sizing,  Mitutoyo calipers to supplement my Harbor Freight model, an IGage micrometer, LabRadar chrono, and a Ransom Rest.  I need to spend the next couple weeks focusing on 9mm and 45 cartridges for a couple upcoming matches, and then really look forward to trying to get some better reloads. I just got my G34 back from the smith and need to perfect some loads for it.

I will definitely post results as this progresses!

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/6/2017, 11:09 am

Finally getting back to the reloading project, couple matches got in the way,

Yesterday, I tried reloading unsized brass.  It is too thick to chamber, so doesn't seem like an option.

When i re-size I get .333.  I have purchased some 98gr Lapua bullets which i will load and try today.

I did test my older reloads with my Labradar, average velocity was 670, spread was 565-750 (which seems high?). Std deviation of 42? 

Factory Fiocchi averaged 760, ranged from 640-860.  Std dev 51.  Too may years since college, don't really understand the significance of 42 vs 51?

Will work for an average of 720 with the new bullets. 

What fun.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/6/2017, 1:50 pm

I have gone through that too. I have found the projectile to be the difference. I had terrible luck with the Lapua HBWC. Speer was worse because even though the box said they were .314 in diameter I couldn't find one over .312. I had decent luck with Magnus 98gr but still the occasional flyer. When I finally found some H&N 100gr HBWC's the Heavens opened up and the oceans receded. I am now, off a rest, am averaging 7 X's & 3 10's. Unfortunately you will have better luck finding unicorns than H&N's. I got mine from Cibles Target Canada.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/6/2017, 2:55 pm

Just returned from the range. Tested 4 different cartridges, 3 factory and one reloads. Since I was using the Labradar, i didn't really focus on accuracy, was sitting down shooting one handed. 

My reloads were with Lapua bullets, 98 gr HBWC. Didnt notice any fliers, will be more precise for that next trip, probably this evening. I was using 175 gr of Bullseye.

Results were as follows

Reloads: First set of 15.
Range 551-940, Ave 782.

2nd set, 20 rds
Range: 644-821.  Std Dev=37
Ave 792


Fiocchi Factory
Range 596-668
Ave 668   SD 24

Federal factory
Range 486-996
Ave 763

Lapua Factory
Range 698-725
Ave 725  

The Lapua is the most expensive, and seems the most consistent.

I plan to reduce my load a bit, and shoot maybe 50 reloads this evening, focusing on accuracy and fliers. 

The current reloads seem superior to the original "mystery bullets", which I think is good. I think I have a few of them left and will retest them side by side to the new reloads.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/6/2017, 3:14 pm

messenger wrote:I have gone through that too. I have found the projectile to be the difference. I had terrible luck with the Lapua HBWC. Speer was worse because even though the box said they were .314 in diameter I couldn't find one over .312. I had decent luck with Magnus 98gr but still the occasional flyer. When I finally found some H&N 100gr HBWC's the Heavens opened up and the oceans receded. I am now, off a rest, am averaging 7 X's & 3 10's. Unfortunately you will have better luck finding unicorns than H&N's. I got mine from Cibles Target Canada.

Bill


Bill, are these results at 25yds?  I had some issues with the factory Lapua at the last match, but could have just been me.  I don't mind buying ammo for the matches as long as the reloads will hit the black. 

I have a new (to me) Ransom Rest. and hope to do some accuracy testing with it. 

I googled Cibles Target Canada, they seem to sell mostly air pistols/rifles?  Was your purchase recent?

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/6/2017, 4:22 pm

No, those are at 50 yards. I bought the bullets around 5 months ago. He had to jump through so many hoops with the paperwork he said that he would never do it again. I don't know if he has anymore. Yes he does mostly air guns. You have to call him. I always got voice mail but I was persistent and he called me back. They weren't cheap but they are the only thing that I have had any consistent accuracy @ 50 yards. I bought a lot of Fiocchi factory ammo I use for the short line. I was having some promising results with Hornady 90 gr SWC with sized brass. I was using 1.65 grains of WST and seating them at .985. They looked kinda funny reassessed back in the brass but they would hold the 10 ring at 50 yards. They have been discontinued by Hornady but I was able to buy them from this company:   https://www.rareammo.com/myaccount.aspom 
They are deadly at 25 yards.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by JKR on 3/7/2017, 7:33 am

Bill,

I always wondered how that would work. Do you have an expander that will open up the case that far down or are you loading them in an unsized case? 
Do you use a roll crimp? 

I haven't found anything better than H&N but I'd be interested in experimenting with these SWC bullets.

Jim

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/7/2017, 9:50 am

Finally some good results:lol:   Shot 40 rounds of reloads, (Lapua Bullets, 1.7 gr Bullseye) last night with NO FLIERS:cheers:.  I was shooting off hand at 25, and am not good enough to speak to real accuracy, but all were in the 9 ring, which is as good as I can do.  Later this week, I will go to my other indoor range (farther away) which has a 50 yd line and take my bench rest as well. 

Really want to thank all for your help.  I still have lots of fun to do, but the fliers were ruining the 32 experience. 

The loads last night felt stout compared to the factory stuff, so will drop the load to 155 for another test today. Didn't chrono last night, but will likely do that today with both loads. All of the testing so far has been in my GSP, will use the MP90 later this week as well, waiting for some more mags from Larry's.  It has iron sights, so accuracy testing is more chancy for me.  Connie needs to visit her mom, so I am stuck here alone will nothing to do for a few days:lol!:.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/7/2017, 1:52 pm

JKR wrote:Bill,

I always wondered how that would work. Do you have an expander that will open up the case that far down or are you loading them in an unsized case? 
Do you use a roll crimp? 

I haven't found anything better than H&N but I'd be interested in experimenting with these SWC bullets.

Jim
I'm pretty sure you won't find anything better than the H&N. I tried the Hornady's when I heard someone talking about using a SWC here. You will only be able to use them in a sized case. They will literally fall to the bottom of an unsized case. I had Lee Precision make me an expander that is .3145 in diameter but I don't notice any benefit over the .314 expander.  The Hornady SWC seat very easily. You can almost do it with your finger. I still use the same taper crimp that I use with the wad cutters. I have no feeding or cycling problems. I tried these out of frustration with the lack of accuracy with everything else I had tried. Off a rest they they consistently hold the ten ring with an occasional 9 @ 50yds. I will probably just use them on the short line and save my H&N's just for the long line. 

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/7/2017, 3:59 pm

Bill, are your H&Ns lead or plated?  Of lead, do you have any experience with plated ones?

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/7/2017, 4:20 pm

They are lead. I have never heard of a plated wadcutter.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/7/2017, 6:06 pm

Bill, the reason I asked is I called Cibles Target Canada. He is out of lead .314 HBWC, but had some left that were plated. That's the extent of my limited knowledge. He indicated that due to new German legislation he had no plans to buy more.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by Magload on 3/7/2017, 6:12 pm

X Treme has DEWC for 38 plated 148gr I have 500 and have had good luck with them but hace not shot them at 50yds as my GP 100 is not one of  my BE guns.
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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/7/2017, 8:02 pm

gregbenner wrote:Bill, the reason I asked is I called Cibles Target Canada. He is out of lead .314 HBWC, but had some left that were plated. That's the extent of my limited knowledge. He indicated that due to new German legislation he had no plans to buy more.
That's interesting. I am satisfied with my lead H&N's so I have no interest in the plated ones. It would be interesting to see if they are accurate. The only draw back would be accelerated barrel ware.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/8/2017, 10:23 am

Bill. my thought as well.  will pass on them since i have quite a few Lapua bullets.  Also, I don't think either my shooting or reloading skills are sufficient for me to make an accurate analysis on my own.

I did lower the powder charge on my current reloads (using the Lapua bullets) from +- 170 gr to 150 grains of BE.  Average muzzle velocity dropped approximately 70 FPS, now is 715-720 based on 60 rounds.  No more huge fliers wither.

They don't "seem" as accurate as the factory ammo, plan to try 50 yds this afternoon, and use a rest as well.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by messenger on 3/8/2017, 3:37 pm

I'm afraid you will be disappointed with your 50yd Lapua results. I couldn't get mine to group worth beans no matter what the load was. I had better luck with cast. 

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/9/2017, 11:46 am

Just did some more resting with a rest. Compared Lapua, Fiocchi and my reloads.

At 50 yrd, both the factory loads would group at about the size of the X ring, perhaps slightly over. The Lapua were stringing right/left? (me?).  My reloads were all over the place.  The Lapua POI was maybe 2-3" higher than the Fiocchi.

At 25 yards, all three were in the X ring.

What really surprised me was my reloads were darn good at 25 (particularly considering my skill level), but were so far off at 50?  Is that super unusual, or do I need to shoot more rounds (I shot 10 rounds of each at each distance)?

In any case, i am super pleased since it looks like i can practice/have fun at 25, which is all my local range has, and use the factory for matches.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by Magload on 3/9/2017, 3:21 pm

gregbenner wrote:Just did some more resting with a rest. Compared Lapua, Fiocchi and my reloads.

At 50 yrd, both the factory loads would group at about the size of the X ring, perhaps slightly over. The Lapua were stringing right/left? (me?).  My reloads were all over the place.  The Lapua POI was maybe 2-3" higher than the Fiocchi.

At 25 yards, all three were in the X ring.

What really surprised me was my reloads were darn good at 25 (particularly considering my skill level), but were so far off at 50?  Is that super unusual, or do I need to shoot more rounds (I shot 10 rounds of each at each distance)?

In any case, i am super pleased since it looks like i can practice/have fun at 25, which is all my local range has, and use the factory for matches.
I have found the same thing.  I had some plated SWC that would X ring at 25yds and 8" at 50yds.  This was off a Ransom rest that I shot a 1.75" with Federal Match.  My LB tested 1.6" @ 50yds with Federal Match so I use them as a referrance point.  BTW the 1.75 was with Zero JHP.  Don
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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by JimH on 3/15/2017, 6:05 pm

So here was my problem with 32 flyers.  I wasn't paying attention reloading a placed some of the bullets in backwards, easy to do.  They will hit the target sideways.

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

Post by gregbenner on 3/15/2017, 6:59 pm

JimH wrote:So here was my problem with 32 flyers.  I wasn't paying attention reloading a placed some of the bullets in backwards, easy to do.  They will hit the target sideways.


I've done that with pellets, need to try it with the 32s:lol!:

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Re: Huge Fliers with .32Long Reloads?

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