Bullet seating for the .45acp

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by troystaten on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:28 pm

In my bulleye pistol with my reloads I am having some trouble with the slide returning to battery and I suspect it is because of the bullets not always seating straight.  Currently shooting a 185 grain lead SWC on top of 4.8 grains of W231 with a crimp of .465. No ejection problems at all but sometimes the slide does not return forward the last 1/8" or so.  With Federal 185grain SWC match factory loads I do not have this problem.  And the loads pass the "plunk" test just fine.  I am seating and crimping in separate steps with RCBS dies, using a RCBS factory taper crimp die.  I saw this die (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/551425/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-taper-crimp-seater-die-45-acp) and was wondering if this might help. 

thanks

troystaten

Posts : 201
Join date : 2012-04-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by 243winxb on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:48 pm

A crooked bullet - May need a better fitting seating plug. Or just make sure the bullet is started  straight.  I think RCBS or others have some newer type of expanders, that may help.  Some use an "M" die . 

Is the head to shoulder the same on all rounds?   http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif   To long and the action wont close fully. 

A .465" crimp seems excessive? But depends on the case body diameter of a loaded round and chamber size.

The Hornady  floating bullet alignment sleeve  in the seating die, can make its own problems, from what i see online. Sorry, no personal experience. Been using RCBS for years, with a modified seat die and separate crimp die. 
avatar
243winxb

Posts : 194
Join date : 2013-12-01
Age : 73
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:30 pm

Prolly a time to look at seating stems that only touch the shoulder.
Super easy to make for Lee dies and available for Dillon & some others.
avatar
STEVE SAMELAK

Posts : 438
Join date : 2011-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by willnewton on Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:50 pm

http://www.ebay.com/sch/rrpmi/m.html?item=142291493585&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Scroll down for RCBS shoulder seat die.  There are other die makes as well.
avatar
willnewton

Posts : 258
Join date : 2016-07-24
Location : Eastern NC

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by troystaten on Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:22 pm

Had not thought of a seating die stem that only touches the shoulder of the bullet, that might solve the problem, Seating depth is consistent so I don't think that is a problem, as for crimps this particular pistol seems to like a pretty tight crimp.

thanks

troystaten

Posts : 201
Join date : 2012-04-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:01 am

I picked up the RRPMI Dillon Seating Die Stem / Insert.  Very pleased.
RRPMI on the left, Dillon on the right






avatar
JayhawkNavy02

Posts : 584
Join date : 2014-03-01
Location : San Diego

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by willnewton on Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:13 am

Your rounds may be "plunking", but are they plunking deep enough into the chamber? 

 Is your chamber clean?  Any leading? Gun lubed? Slide action functioning well?  Recoil spring too weak?  Did you install "super extra power" magazine springs?

Make any recent changes?  Has it always had this problem or has it gotten worse over time?

avatar
willnewton

Posts : 258
Join date : 2016-07-24
Location : Eastern NC

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by DavidR on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:19 am

Could be a recoil spring issue, too light will not push the slide forward with enough force, try a new spring in the same weight and then move up a pound if that doesnt fix it.
avatar
DavidR
Admin

Posts : 2992
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 63
Location : NRA:Expert, Georgia

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by troystaten on Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:59 pm

Hey Will my rounds are headspacing correctly (second from the left image you showed) Also I did measure the diameter of the loaded case just above the groove on case where the extractor hooks and (with calipers not a mike) and it seems that my rounds are about 1-2 thousands larger than factory ammo, I do think the problem is the bullets seating cockeyed though.  Another person suggested that I increase the bell of the case a bit to aid in seating the bullets straighter.

thanks.

troystaten

Posts : 201
Join date : 2012-04-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by troystaten on Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:03 pm

Will, almost forgot I did have to change the extractor, that took some fussing, at first I was having trouble with extracting the fire cases as well (both with factory and reloads) That problem was fixed and now the factory ammo is fine, just intermittent problems with the reloads.  Might try my shooting buddies reloads that use the same bullet and crimp to see how it fares. 

thanks

troystaten

Posts : 201
Join date : 2012-04-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by jglenn21 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:05 pm

one trick I learned on old brass is to run it through the Lee Budge buster every now and then to swag the rim back down close to new size.. it also makes them all uniform.. thus you get the same extractor tension..... too much extractor tension may be your issue..

avatar
jglenn21

Posts : 1014
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 69
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Lee Buldge Buster

Post by Lamar H on Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:33 pm

jglenn21
Is the buldge buster the same size as Lee Factory die without the crimp?
Lamar H

Lamar H

Posts : 15
Join date : 2016-10-29
Age : 79
Location : Acworth, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by jglenn21 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:48 pm

bulge buster works with the Lee factory crimp dies... it does replace the crimp portion
avatar
jglenn21

Posts : 1014
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 69
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by troystaten on Mon May 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Hello Willnewton I got the seating stem from the vendor for my RCBS die that you mentioned and it seems to have done the trick.  Thank you

troystaten

Posts : 201
Join date : 2012-04-19

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon May 15, 2017 8:18 pm

I measure from rear of cartridge to the shoulder on 200 lswc. I use 0.920". I don't care about OAL. I never having feeding issues. I crimp between .467-.469. Been shooting great SF with no effort to reloading super duper ammo. Most people seat out too far. Will build up a lead ring in the chamber and then won't allow slide to go fully into battery.
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1739
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by rich.tullo on Mon May 15, 2017 9:42 pm

IMHO

Could be recoil spring, too light
Magazine, or release
SWC HG68 type, OAL anything between 1.23 and 1.25 should work. Some guns hate BN SWC and need to be run long. 
Powder, too light try 1 or 2 tenths higher
Glockerized brass if range brass. Glocks make a small bulge that requires either a Lee Bulge buster or Full length sizing to fix if at all. 
Extractor tension. 

Up the powder charge and see if that works. 

I would only make one change at a time to isolate the problem.
avatar
rich.tullo

Posts : 852
Join date : 2015-03-27

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by bdas on Tue May 16, 2017 1:12 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I measure from rear of cartridge to the shoulder on 200 lswc. I use 0.920". I don't care about OAL. I never having feeding issues. I crimp between .467-.469. Been shooting great SF with no effort to reloading super duper ammo. Most people seat out too far. Will build up a lead ring in the chamber and then won't allow slide to go fully into battery.
Jon
Jon, why does seating further back prevent lead from building up in the chamber?  I would have guessed the opposite (seating too short allows more movement of the bullet before reaching the leade/lands and thus allows lead to rub off of the bullet onto the chamber).  I don't seem to have an issue with lead buildup in my chamber (as far as I can tell), and I usually seat to around 0.925" at the shoulder for LWSC (mostly 200gr), but could adjust to 0.920" easily enough.
Dave

bdas

Posts : 176
Join date : 2015-11-23
Location : People's Republic of NJ

https://sites.google.com/site/davesguninfo/home

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue May 16, 2017 1:49 pm

0.925 is fine. I don't know why it does, but based on experience with my own pistols and others I have seen the lead ring cause many alibis at matches. I inspect the ammo and then we pull barrel and can see the buildup. Run a brush through and back in business. When they get home and shorten their seating depth no more lead ring or alibis. But headspace plays a role. Unfortunately many pistols out there have excessive headspace and can get away with seating out farther. But on match pistols with correct headspace it is a big problem. It's possible that because most 45 pistols have sloppy saami spec chambers, the diameter of chamber at the case mouth allows cartridge to sit low and the bullet shoulder is being shaved off when fired causing the lead ring. In other words the bullet shoulder is going to hit end of chamber because it sits lower than the rifling. So seating bullet deaper into case allows a small jump before hitting the end of the chamber and less buildup. Obviously not scientific but guesstimation.
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1739
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Magload on Tue May 16, 2017 2:55 pm

I had ring around the chamber my first match. Mine are at .930 now but were longer for that match. Longer was fine till the lead built up.  I am shooting 185 Zero SWCHPs.  Don
avatar
Magload

Posts : 1070
Join date : 2016-11-18
Age : 71
Location : NE Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Jack H on Tue May 16, 2017 3:45 pm

jglenn21 wrote:one trick I learned on old brass is to run it through the Lee Budge buster every now and then to swag the rim back down close to new size.. it also makes them all uniform.. thus you get the same extractor tension..... too much extractor tension may be your issue..


I was doing that with old brass.  The carbide ring inside broke from the difficult passage of rims.  Lee gave me a new one.  But I fail to trust it anymore.

Moral:  Never ask "Is my brass too big"
avatar
Jack H

Posts : 1305
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 68
Location : Duckburg, Orygun

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by jglenn21 on Tue May 16, 2017 4:56 pm

I've had mine for years and never had an issue with swaging the rims. Good to know Lee will replace it.
Of
avatar
jglenn21

Posts : 1014
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 69
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Multiracer on Tue May 16, 2017 6:56 pm

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:Prolly a time to look at seating stems that only touch the shoulder.
Super easy to make for Lee dies and available for Dillon & some others.

I have one coming this week for my RCBS. I will let you know how it works. I think it will certainly square the bullet up with the case so as not to leave the lead and wax debris.
Ron

Multiracer

Posts : 287
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by bdas on Wed May 17, 2017 2:26 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:0.925 is fine. I don't know why it does, but based on experience with my own pistols and others I have seen the lead ring cause many alibis at matches. I inspect the ammo and then we pull barrel and can see the buildup. Run a brush through and back in business. When they get home and shorten their seating depth no more lead ring or alibis. But headspace plays a role. Unfortunately many pistols out there have excessive headspace and can get away with seating out farther. But on match pistols with correct headspace it is a big problem. It's possible that because most 45 pistols have sloppy saami spec chambers, the diameter of chamber at the case mouth allows cartridge to sit low and the bullet shoulder is being shaved off when fired causing the lead ring. In other words the bullet shoulder is going to hit end of chamber because it sits lower than the rifling. So seating bullet deaper into case allows a small jump before hitting the end of the chamber and less buildup. Obviously not scientific but guesstimation.
Jon
Thank you for the additional information.  I neglected to mention that I'm using a Kart barrel that was fit by a bullseye gunsmith.  I have no idea how much headspace it has, but it shoots great with 200gr LSWC (better than with 185gr JHP at 50 yards from the loads I've tested so far), so I just ordered a bunch more from Zero, and will soon begin loading them up.

Thanks,
Dave

bdas

Posts : 176
Join date : 2015-11-23
Location : People's Republic of NJ

https://sites.google.com/site/davesguninfo/home

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Multiracer on Wed May 24, 2017 11:05 pm

I got the shoulder seating bullet rod from the e-bay guy mentioned above. I did a couple hundred 200gn LSWC tonight.
Nice tool,it did away with the errant lead clippings and wax chips that used to show up loading with the conventional RCBS bullet seater.
Every piece of ammunition measured correctly as well.
Thanks for the tip, the tool gets an A+ from me.
Ron

Multiracer

Posts : 287
Join date : 2017-03-15
Location : North Ohio

Back to top Go down

Re: Bullet seating for the .45acp

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum