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Looking for a higher MV accuracy node

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CR10X
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Looking for a higher MV accuracy node Empty Looking for a higher MV accuracy node

Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 2:08 am

Been working on a 9mm PCC load with Zero 115gr JHP.  The bullet shoots well and consistently well with a five round 1" group at 50 yards.  The problem is at that charge, it will not make power factor (PF) with that MV.  Higher powder weight does make PF but is less precise i.e. more like 2.5".  I've gone to max charge with no further success, and so my question is have any of you tighten a higher charge group by changing seating depth of the bullet and successfully tighten the group significantly with this strategy.

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Post by Wobbley 1/26/2019, 2:13 am

Work on the crimp.  Yes even jacketed.
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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 2:19 am

LOL!  I was trying to avoid that topic as it seem to be a contentious area in handgun reloading.  I in fact agree with you and I have plans to also look at that.  However, bullet seating depths really have the same effect i.e. affecting chamber pressure/MV/barrel time.

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Post by LenV 1/26/2019, 2:22 am

Zero makes a 124gr .355 bullet that is every bit as accurate and making PF is easier.
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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 2:26 am

Maybe so but that's not what I have....

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Post by dronning 1/26/2019, 4:31 am

Use the 115 for practice buy some 124 for match - ezpz.
- Dave
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Post by kidneyboy 1/26/2019, 1:53 pm

jlow wrote:Maybe so but that's not what I have....

Then try a different powder. 
While i'm not discouraging trying some tweaking with the load you have, you have already pushed it harder without good results.

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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 1:55 pm

Well the question is about tweaking.  Not looking for another powder or bullet at this point.

Am I wasting time on this forum? Laughing

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Post by CR10X 1/26/2019, 3:06 pm

"This is not the site you are looking for......"

For PCC stuff go over to 

https://forums.brianenos.com/

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Post by SmokinNJokin 1/26/2019, 3:12 pm

We are all looking to achieve maximum accuracy with the lowest mv. No concern for PF here.

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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 3:23 pm

SomkinNJokin, I understand that.  But different competition requires different things.  

I am here not because I am a bullseye shooter but because I respect the skills of some of the folks here and think I can learn from them

I also figured not all posters here are Bullseye shooters and may have run into my problem.

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Post by james r chapman 1/26/2019, 3:23 pm

IMHO, just go with the max load you've already tried that made PF. 2.5" is reasonable for everything but benchrest shooting....
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Post by james r chapman 1/26/2019, 3:32 pm

just for information.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/making-major-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/137998
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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 3:35 pm

james r chapman wrote:IMHO, just go with the max load you've already tried that made PF. 2.5" is reasonable for everything but benchrest shooting....
I think this may be reasonable.  Looking for a more precise node is probably the Type A in me, and the never satisfied precision reloader talking. lol!


Sometimes coming from precision rifle can be hazardous to you pocket book and mental health...

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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 3:48 pm

james r chapman wrote:just for information.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/making-major-hodgdon-cfe-pistol-powder/137998
That's a great article BTW - thanks!  I don't need to make MAJOR with my loads, only 135 PF because it's a PCC but those velocities which they achieve with the 115gr bullets is useful to know as I am new to high pressure 9mm reloading with these light bullets.

I am pretty sure I am safe as I am shooting an MPX and that is a sub gun really designed for high pressure rounds not that I have any need/desire to push that limit.  Just trying not to cheat shooting really light loads.

It is also good to know at 115gr bullets are used and a good option for achieving higher PF despite what was written above.

I thank you very much for this information.

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Post by Wobbley 1/26/2019, 4:06 pm

If you want a decent starting load using CFEPistol try 5.4 gr behind a 115 gr bullet.  It isn’t max but it’s a good load that I use in my combat pistol range ammo.  My CZ likes it.
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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 4:42 pm

Thanks!

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Post by S148 1/26/2019, 5:41 pm

jlow, what is your current load - powder and charge weight?

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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 5:44 pm

3.9 grain of Tightgroup.  Just keep in mind that accuracy node is affected by barrel length - mine is 8".

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Post by S148 1/26/2019, 6:10 pm

jlow wrote:3.9 grain of Tightgroup.  Just keep in mind that accuracy node is affected by barrel length - mine is 8".

Awesome, thanks.  

I've had mixed results with TG, so I'd suggest a different powder.  The Zero 115-conical JHP bullet shoots well in my 5" Kart barrel.

Powder suggestions:
Power Pistol.  best group thus far was with the Zero 115-conical JHP bullet with 6.5 gr PP - a 1.5" 50-shot group at 25 yards.
Accurate #7.  consistent accuracy with many bullets
Silhouette. more consistent accuracy.  Start around 5.0 gr with 115 grain bullets and work up to see what shoots best.
N350.  good accuracy near max loads
N330 has been a favorite with many shooters though it's hard to find. My tests with it have been okay, but other powders seems to suit my Kart barrel better.

Other folks here will likely have more suggestions.

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Post by Wobbley 1/26/2019, 6:31 pm

With Titegroup you’ll run into pressure issues before you reach the velocity you n
Your powder needs to be around the speed of Alliant Unique here is the latest Hodgdon burn rate .  I’ve had good luck with WSF, Unique and CFEPistol.

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Post by jlow 1/26/2019, 8:59 pm

S148 - I am sure Titegroup is not the ideal powder but I have a metric ton of it so I figured I start with it first.  At least in my hands, the results have been consistent round to round and day to day.

Wobbley – No pressure issue going up to 4.6 grain of TG.  First of all, that is the max load recommended by Hodgdon, and fact is based on my chrono MV (with a LabRadar), I also don’t have to go to max to make PF of 135,000.  Keep in mind also this is not a handgun but an MPX which is a sub machine gun disguised as a pistol in a semi-auto configuration so it can take A LOT more pressure not that I need it.  You can really tell because it is impossible to do a plunk and twist test with it’s chamber, it is way too long apparently I been told to deal with potential heavy loads expected for an SMG.

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Post by HenryA 1/28/2019, 6:53 pm

I highly recommend N340 and WSF. Others here have had good results with Power Pistol. Those powders are in the realm of what might be considered “factory type powders” that might in some custom lots be the powder of choice of a high line manufacturer for the 9mm cartridge. Don’t even talk about accuracy nodes. Your MPX is going to follow pistol rules more than rifle rules. There really is such a thing as ammunition that will shoot well in most all good guns chambered for it. It used to be pretty common when the domestic ammo makers spent lots of time finding that spot for the ammo they put on the market.
Also, what you are running up against is the tendency for some action pistol shooters to follow the herd and go with low charges of fast powders to get a PF but without fine accuracy. Or sometimes good accuracy but still selected by chronograph and not the Ransom Rest. Most of the shooters I see in those sports can’t tell if the load does much more than hits the target. Truly fine accuracy is not required for most of those contests. But now with a short rifle you want more. The A zone out to 25 yards is a big target, but there’s nothing wrong with more accuracy.

For the 115s, I’d go with 5.3 or 5.4 of N340. Its shot great in every gun I’ve tried. WSF is a close second. Very close and cheaper.

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