Dropping the slide on an empty chamber - problem, or not?

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Post by mikemyers on 6/9/2019, 2:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

This is going around on the "Bullseye L List", but I thought I would ask here.   Jon, KC, and others who build these guns for competition - can/will dropping the slide on an empty chamber damage the gun?  I watch this video, and then picture all that the gun goes through from normal shooting - maybe this video is correct?   I was told long ago to never do it, but I was never told why.

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Post by mikemyers on 6/12/2019, 8:35 pm

jmdavis wrote:............I load on closed slide and an empty chamber to have a chance to dryfire once, and confirm my grip before chambering a round.
Nice idea!!!!  Thanks.  Now that you've written it, it sounds obvious, but it sure wasn't ten minutes ago!
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Post by inthebeech on 6/13/2019, 7:26 am

Wobbley wrote:Are you impressed with his credential and experience?  
Not really.
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Post by mikemyers on 6/13/2019, 8:21 am

mikemyers wrote:This is going around on the "Bullseye L List", but I thought I would ask here.   Jon, KC, and others who build these guns for competition - can/will dropping the slide on an empty chamber damage the gun?  I watch this video, and then picture all that the gun goes through from normal shooting - maybe this video is correct?   I was told long ago to never do it, but I was never told why.
The original topic for this thread was whether or not bullseye shooters can damage their guns by dropping the slide on an empty chamber.

The answer to that question has been agreed by everyone here to by yes.  Our 1911 guns are not the same as the original design intended, where the slide can be dropped endlessly on an empty chamber.  Our guns are machined as a precision instrument, not a general tool, and all that precision machining time and expense can be wasted if we don't treat them accordingly.  To me, this is like using a micrometer as a glue clamp.

I think that answers this thread.  As to all the other ways people can best use a bullseye gun, they probably deserve their own item thread, hopefully explained in a way that ordinary people (like me) can understand.  

I think this thread can be closed, as it is already answered.    :-)

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Post by Slartybartfast on 6/13/2019, 9:59 am

DanQ wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:
DanQ wrote:
kc.crawford.7 wrote:Purely from a gunsmith perspective.  Hold the trigger to the rear when you drop the slide.  End of conversation.  That allows the disconnector to do as John Moses designed it to do.  That is a safety feature of the pistol.  No damage can occur because the sear and hammer do not make contact.

That's what I was taught years ago and I've continued to do since returning to the sport.  Good to understand why.  Thanks!
Except you're thanking the wrong information...

No, I was thanking the fellow Marine who builds and works on my guns.
Well, can you or KC explain how a disconnected trigger is keeping the sear off the hammer?
Seriously, for all the attitudes and issues this is my major question. And people seem unable to to much more than get annoyed that they're being questioned and can't give an answer.

Add another interesting question: How on Earth is holding a trigger a "safety feature"?
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Post by David R on 6/13/2019, 4:03 pm

Holding the trigger DISCONNECTS it from the sear.  The gun cannot fire if the trigger cannot reach the sear.

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Post by mikemyers on 6/13/2019, 4:38 pm

People from outside our little world are going to read this stuff, without understanding, and someone is likely to get hurt.  

The rule is finger off the trigger except when ready to shoot.


It might be perfectly safe for Mario Andretti to enter a corner at a high speed, drift around the turn, and continue on, but we certainly don't want advise this for the general public.
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Post by David R on 6/13/2019, 4:50 pm

Hammer is held all the way back by the slide.  You pull the trigger.   Nothing happens because the hammer is held by the slide.   You trip the slide release.  The slide moves forward and the disconnecter is pushed down.  Hammer moves up and catches on the sear.  Slide goes home with a bang. Nothing can happen.  Look above for trigger bounce 
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Post by Wobbley on 6/13/2019, 5:07 pm

Very true, Mike.

As for what and why you don’t drop the slide on an empty gun, in this video there is a slo-mo view of a 1911 in counter recoil and you can see the slide slow down significantly as it strips off the round in the magazine. The scene is around the 7:25 mark.

https://youtu.be/Bp-HFVG_c4Q
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Post by Slartybartfast on 6/13/2019, 5:44 pm

Wobbley wrote:Very true, Mike.

As for what and why you don’t drop the slide on an empty gun, in this video there is a slo-mo view of a 1911 in counter recoil and you can see the slide slow down significantly as it strips off the round in the magazine.  The scene is around the 7:25 mark.  

https://youtu.be/Bp-HFVG_c4Q
Good video, no question a slide hits the breech with less force (and the sear is affected less too) compared to no magazine present.

For all other concerns I'll stick with abiding by the golden rule of "Booger hook off the bang bang switch until want to shooty shooty".
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Post by kc.crawford.7 on 6/14/2019, 8:03 am

Slartybartfast wrote:
DanQ wrote:
Slartybartfast wrote:
DanQ wrote:
kc.crawford.7 wrote:Purely from a gunsmith perspective.  Hold the trigger to the rear when you drop the slide.  End of conversation.  That allows the disconnector to do as John Moses designed it to do.  That is a safety feature of the pistol.  No damage can occur because the sear and hammer do not make contact.

That's what I was taught years ago and I've continued to do since returning to the sport.  Good to understand why.  Thanks!
Except you're thanking the wrong information...

No, I was thanking the fellow Marine who builds and works on my guns.
Well, can you or KC explain how a disconnected trigger is keeping the sear off the hammer?
Seriously, for all the attitudes and issues this is my major question. And people seem unable to to much more than get annoyed that they're being questioned and can't give an answer.

Add another interesting question: How on Earth is holding a trigger a "safety feature"?
It doesn't keep the sear off the hammer.  By holding the trigger to the rear when the slide is released (ammo present or not) the disconnector is not allowed to go forward and get behind the sear legs to initiate the process of pushing the sear off the hammer hooks to make the gun go bang.  Holding the trigger to the rear is not a "safety" feature.  The disconnector is one of the four safeties built into the 1911 pistol.  Holding the trigger to the rear allows the disconnector to function as designed preventing the sear from being able to release the hammer.

I wasn't going to say anything about your comment on attitudes.  But it was you that felt the necessity to bestow your degree and professional knowledge.  Yes I do get irritated when my professional knowledge is questioned, repeatedly.  But I'm not going to apologize for that.  On this subject I know for a definite I'm correct.
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Post by Slartybartfast on 6/14/2019, 8:44 am

Glad you clarified.
My understanding of the working seems to be absolutely correct.
I usually get a "what do you know about guns?". And this thread is filled with quotes and comments that essentially say " want do you know? I'm a, or they are a, gunsmith."
Being a professional means you're qualified to give detailed answers. Not that any old claim should be taken as gospel. And just because someone is quoting a professional doesn't mean they aren't misremembering or haven't misinterpreted.
Seems you put down my pointing out my credentials, you seem genuinely chafed, yet feel yourself above others by declaring you're a gunsmith.
So it's sad that so many people seem to get put out when I simply point out that I'm plenty qualified to understand far more complex mechanisms.
There are others who are plenty capable of understanding who don't have particular credentials. But the basic argument was reduced to "Shut up, these guys know". Which is disrespectful to everyone who asks questions and wants to learn.

Seems to me your clarification has put many of the claims to shame and validates my understanding of the workings.
If there was respect and openness all round some rather simple questions could have been answered long ago.
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Post by willnewton on 6/14/2019, 9:34 am

Jeez, this dead horse has been beaten enough folks  Rolling Eyes

Thread closed as requested by the OP and before things get further out of hand.

Now, ya’ll go play outside!
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