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Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC

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Jon Eulette
Allgoodhits
bruce martindale
JIMPGOV
james r chapman
Wobbley
chopper
Dcforman
SmokinNJokin
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Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC Empty Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC

Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 8:50 am

Folks,
Im having issues with my .38 Keefer PPC revolver and excessive cylinder leading. Im getting huge lead deposits in the cylinders, with big flakes of it coming off and then i have to scrub for a long time after a shooting session to get them to come clean.

1) the gun. S&4 mod 64 PPC by Jerry keefer. The cylinders are mirror-perfect, throated with a very extreme cone (11deg?) for wadcutters. I doubt the gun is the problem.

2) ammo: using the Summers 148 DEWC, loaded flush with a heavy roll crimp and 2.7-3.0 grains of WST.

Anything I can change up on this load to reduce the leading? Any ideas how to troubleshoot this? I use summers bullets in other guns and the blue lube they use runs very clean. Never have any lead in my .45 barrels.

SmokinNJokin

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Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 8:54 am

Forgot to mention, i started with the gun clean, REALLY clean. I scrubbed the cylinder for days and was in there with a flashlight until it was absolutely, mirror spotless. So I know i started from a good baseline. One shooting session and it looked horrible again.

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Post by Dcforman 10/30/2021, 8:59 am

What size bullet diameter? Maybe without the skirt to expand, you're getting blow-by?

Dave

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Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 9:10 am

Thats what I was afraid of, they are .358 exactly. They are such a cheap, easy to load bullet I hate to give up on them. I have some zero HBWC's but I was hoping to save them for... well I don't know exactly. This revolver gets shot a ton by friend and family for fun, hate to waste expensive bullets on plinking.

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Post by chopper 10/30/2021, 10:07 am

what size are the throats? I had dewc and seated them out a 1/16" or past the bevel and crimped there before, that helped me. I also used a taper crimp seated out as above and it helped, but I think wasn't necessary.
Stan

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Post by Wobbley 10/30/2021, 10:19 am

Are these lubricated bullets or coated?  If lubricated you very likely have a size issue.  Buy coated and most of this problem gets WAY smaller.  I have found that coated are just as accurate.
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Post by james r chapman 10/30/2021, 10:37 am

Size DOES matter.
Try at least .001 larger than throat diameter.
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Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 11:46 am

Ugh, i have thousands of these bullets. Hate to have to switch. Going to try choppers advice and seat them out longer using the crimp groove, hopefully that helps. Only reason I had been loading flush was for my semi-autos, and those are all gone. This revolver is now my only .38.

I don't have the tools to measure throat size, but the bullets could not be seated in by hand so I would assume they are at least .001" smaller.

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Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC Empty Re: Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC

Post by JIMPGOV 10/30/2021, 12:44 pm

HERE YOU GO. 2.8 GR WST IS THE LOAD FOR HBWC. WITH 2.8-3.0 WST WITH A DEWC IT'S TOO LIGHT . NOT ENOUGH PRESSURE TO SWELL THE BASE . INCREASE THE POWDER TO 3.3-3.5 WST. THAT SHOULD EASE OR SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM.

NOW FOR CLEANING THE CHAMBERS. DON'T USE A BORE BRUSH. BORE BRUSHES ARE TOO SMALL. USE A CHAMBER BRUSH FROM BROWNELLS. RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB.

BROWNELLS ITEM NUMBER
084-450-137WB  
9mm, 38/357 Caliber Bronze Chamber Brush 3 Pack

 I KNOW I'M RIGHT ON THIS ONE. HOW ? THAT GUN USED TO BE MINE. JP

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Post by bruce martindale 10/30/2021, 1:49 pm

reload with unresized brass and compare. If it is better, the case was too small and swaging the bullet down. Big problem for soft bullets. Get a 0.360 expander plug full length of bullet
LMK
good luck

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Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 1:50 pm

Thanks all for the information! Jim this gun is awesome, it is one of my favorites and I shoot it very frequently. 

I will increase the load with the DEWC bullets. That makes sense.

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Post by SmokinNJokin 10/30/2021, 1:51 pm

Bruce, good advice also, thankfully I solved that problem a while ago with a good expander for my 550... forgot where i got it but i can seat the bullet almost halfway in by hand.

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Post by Allgoodhits 10/30/2021, 2:08 pm

Do known quality bullets lead the barrel? If the answer is no, the problem is clearly the bullets, or load for those bullets particular. DEWC will require more umph to cause them to obturate compared to a HBWC.
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Post by bruce martindale 10/30/2021, 2:15 pm

I had been using Remington and Winchester component bullets with no issues. I obtained some Zeroes that, treated the same, leaded like MAD. Small difference in BHN allowed damage in seating. Went to a larger plug and had no more issues, and they hold 10 ring or better at 50y

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Post by Jon Eulette 10/30/2021, 2:27 pm

Zero had a batch of 148 HBWC that were too soft many years ago. They would lead the entire bore from the chamber lead to the muzzle. They fixed the problem but the bad batch could still be circulating.
Jon
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Post by WesG 10/30/2021, 7:07 pm

Another plug for the Photoescape expander. Larger diameter and long enough for the whole bullet.

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Post by RePete 10/31/2021, 7:43 am

You are very lucky to have a Jerry Keefer revolver. Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC 1f600  Excessive cylinder leading PPC revolver with 148 DEWC 1f600 

I never had any luck, try as I may, with DEWC's.  Stick with swaged HBWC's

My load was 148gr HBWC
2.8gr/ Bullseye
Fed SP primer
Seated flush with a slight roll crimp.

My friends load was the aboce but with 3.0gr/ww231.

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Post by desben 10/31/2021, 9:33 am

You can try to tumble-lube the bullets in Lee liquid alox. Wonderful stuff. I've used it on top of conventional lube with no issues.
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Post by SmokinNJokin 11/1/2021, 8:04 am

Used the last of my SPP to load up all my .38 brass, Summers 148 DEWC with 3.4 WST as directed and Zero 148 HBWC with 2.7 WST. If that doesn't do the trick I will get some liquid alox and tumble with that as several have recommended.

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Post by Kp321 11/7/2021, 7:46 am

I had the same problem with any non-hollow base WC in my 52. Tumble lube helped but even then they didn’t shoot as well as HBWC bullets. I finally used all of them up in practice ammo and took care of the leading with a Lewis tool. I now have a good supply of HBWC’s from Remington and Magnus so hope I don’t have to go back to the DEWC’s but the Lewis is there if needed.

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