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Excessive leading .38 wadcutter

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Post by joeangi on Sat May 23, 2020 7:56 pm

I would like the help of the members of the forum for some reloading advice. The basics are: Bill Davis PPC S&W pistol shooting 50 yard bullseye. My basic load has been 3.1 grains of Winchester 231. When I bought the gun I was even told that it liked this load. I have been loading Speer and Hornady 148 gr. HBWC with what I consider good success. I purchased 1000 of the Precision Delta 148 HBWC with match lube, and have been getting leading like crazy. Could be me, but I think groups have grown larger as well...but not sure, as my groups aren’t that good to begin with. I placed a call to Precision Delta, and they said that I should be loading 2.9 grains.... so I did make up a bunch. The gun still seems very dirty after 30-40 rounds. Tonight I measured the diameter of all three bullets (I always keep a sample). The Speer and the Hornady both measure .358 diameter. The Precision Delta measures at .3565. Could this be my problem? I did buy 1000 of the Precision’s, as I had heard so much good about them. I know certain guns like certain ammo, should I just “chalk these up” to a learning curve?

Thanks for any advice.

Joe

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Post by james r chapman on Sat May 23, 2020 8:18 pm

I've found that anything other than Remingtons fat slugs, work best if you as the late Jerry Keefer did and use gasoline to wash the lube off the bullets then tumble lube with 45-45-10 alox lube to get just a thin coating on them.
let them sun dry and you shouldn't have issues.

Being a HBWC bullet, the skirt should easily expand to fill the cylinder throats.
3.1 WW 231 is a well established load. should shoot x-ring at 50 yds out of a Davis gun.

calipers or micrometers?
PD'S .38 wadcutters are designated as .357 as are most swaged bullets.
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Post by joeangi on Sat May 23, 2020 8:35 pm

I would have thought that the match lube would be preferable to the the standard lube. I’ll probably not go through the effort to strip the lube and then re-lube. 

I agree that the hbwc, should expand enough to fill the bore, I am certainly not blowing out the skirt with 2.9 grains 

Digital calipers. The PD’s did bounce to .357 once, but generally multiple samples were .3565. The Speer and Hornady hit and held the .358 with multiple measuring. 

I agree, the gun can hold x-ring...I am working on doing my part!

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Post by JIMPGOV on Sat May 23, 2020 8:55 pm

NOTHING WRONG WITH 231. BUT 3.2 OR 3.3 GR WORKED BEST AT 50 YARDS. WINCHESTER DATA 3.5 TO 4.0 IS LISTED FOR 148GR HBWC. I NEVER LOST A SKIRT OFF A HBWC BULLET AT 3.3GR OF 231.
 
I HONESTLY HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET THE D/P BULLETS TO GROUP AT 50YDS. I'VE TRIED WST, BULLSEYE , TRAILBOSS AND VV310. THEY JUST WOULDN'T HOLD X-RING AT 50YDS. STICK WITH REMINGTON OR ZERO. JP

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Post by 243winxb on Sat May 23, 2020 9:47 pm

The Speer and the Hornady both measure .358 diameter. The Precision Delta measures at .3565. Could this be my problem?   


Yes, 
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Post by David R on Sun May 24, 2020 8:09 am

I agree, too small diameter.  

Only one brand of HBWC will lead in my Smith and Wesson 38.  I don't shoot the brand. 

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Post by boatbum101 on Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 am

I've had problems with undersized PD bullets in the past & will no longer buy them . The Remington HBWC is the one & the Zero HBWC shoot good in tighter Colt & a Douglas PPC barrel . 45-45-10 White Label is cheap & it works . Simple tumble lube a little bit goes a long way . Another possibility is " bumping" bullets up & then lubing with 45-45-10 . I'm still trying to use up some of PD's 185 SWCHP undersize won't group @ 50 , work OK short . Try the tumble lube as it can't hurt & with luck might cure problem .

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Post by Bmitch996 on Sun May 24, 2020 11:25 am

I had the same problem with the Precision Delta HBWC bullets in my Model 52 and my revolver, I no longer use them.  The Speer bullet works well for me.

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Post by joeangi on Sun May 24, 2020 7:12 pm

Thank you everyone for the advice. Shame that I made a bunch up already (like 300). It appears that the ever so slightly smaller diameter is the culprit. 

I would like to get the Speers, but do not see them available anywhere. I am going to try the Zero’s. Shipping from Midway is killing the cost of the Hornady’s

Joe

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Post by james r chapman on Sun May 24, 2020 7:20 pm

look around and see if you can get .358's.
what are your cylinder throat diameters.

added.
Jerry Keefer liked his bullets.
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Post by troystaten on Mon May 25, 2020 6:27 pm

You might give Bear Creek bullets a try as well.  They make a 148 grain HBWC.

https://www.bearcreeksupplybullets.com/bulletselection

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Post by joeangi on Mon May 25, 2020 7:23 pm

The bear creeks look perfect too. Anyone have any experience? Bear creek vs zero?

Anyone want to sell a little 45-45-10? I hate to buy a 32 oz. bottle. What do you do with the gasoline after you soak the lube off the pellets?

Thanks, Joe

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Post by troystaten on Mon May 25, 2020 8:32 pm

I just went out to the shop and measured with my Sterrett calipers and PD's measured at .366-.367, Hornady's measured at .358 and Bear Creek also .367-368.  Nosler Jacketed HP's came in at .357.  I realize that a micrometer would be more accurate but I thought this info might be helpful.

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Post by joeangi on Mon May 25, 2020 8:56 pm

Interesting... so the PD’s are actually larger in diameter?  The Speers and the Hornady seem to work well. .358 appears to be the right diameter for my gun

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Post by joeangi on Mon May 25, 2020 8:57 pm

Thank you for measuring with a micrometer

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Post by David R on Mon May 25, 2020 9:01 pm

Check your PM, I have 500 zero  HBWC.   

Cheap

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Post by Wobbley on Mon May 25, 2020 9:37 pm

Excessive leading .38 wadcutter 0bf9d810

Shot at 25 yards off hand. They work. I still buy them.

joeangi wrote:The bear creeks look perfect too. Anyone have any experience? Bear creek vs zero?

Anyone want to sell a little 45-45-10? I hate to buy a 32 oz. bottle. What do you do with the gasoline after you soak the lube off the pellets?

Thanks, Joe
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Post by joeangi on Mon May 25, 2020 10:33 pm

Nice target!

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Post by Wobbley on Mon May 25, 2020 11:06 pm

Meh...
Excessive leading .38 wadcutter 41d4aa10
Excessive leading .38 wadcutter F7e99c10
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Post by troystaten on Tue May 26, 2020 1:06 am

Sorry about that for the PD's I ment .3565-.357.

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Post by joeangi on Tue May 26, 2020 4:00 am

Thanks for re-checking. So, they are smaller. I will either have to relube them or shoot them sparingly.  

I shot 30 rounds yesterday and each cylinder bore has a lovely ring of lead in them! The forcing cone is also a mess. Time to break out the Lewis lead remover...

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Post by David R on Tue May 26, 2020 8:45 am

If you can find a real copper chore boy scrubber, wrap some of it around an old bore brush. It will remove the lead in a few strokes. Been doing this for years. Use a magnet to be sure it’s not copper plated steel. Works great!
I got this from the cast boolit forum in 06.
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Post by james r chapman on Tue May 26, 2020 11:09 am

Possibly hitech coat them?
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Post by troystaten on Tue May 26, 2020 12:04 pm

Pretty interesting that .5-1 thousands of an inch on a HBWC would make that much difference.  Big pain in the backside that's for sure.

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Post by joeangi on Tue May 26, 2020 1:03 pm

Agreed. I wish there was a way to see what the chambers looked like after 30 rounds.

I was not able to accurately measure the diameter of the chambers. I did "plunk" the three brands of wadcutters that I do have, and the PD's do go further down the chamber.

Thoughts on loading them a little hotter? Was at 3.1, changed to 2.9 per PD's instructions....thoughs on 3.3? Spread the skirt more??

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